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The great war in other parts of the world 963578843666749.3281.984305707
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 The great war in other parts of the world

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jacktrenton

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PostSubject: The great war in other parts of the world   The great war in other parts of the world EmptyThu 4 Apr 2019 - 17:54

So I've been trying to think of what's going on in the rest of the world, based on how I think a Sino-American war would play out in real life and based on historical precedent set by WW1 and WW2. None of this is confirmed in canon.

First, I think a war between USA and China would be fought on many more fronts and theaters beyond Anchorage, the Yangtze River, and Gobi Desert  (which are confirmed battles in the lore). This would be something that would consume the entire Pacific and East Asia and maybe even the Middle East. It would be like the Pacific War in WW2.  Given the reach of the U.S. Navy, Chinese territorial ambition, the allies each side has been cultivating in these regions, and the importance of vital shipping lanes to the Chinese economy.

Second, the resources needed to sustain such a war would be enormous. Oil and natural gas, rubber, steel, textiles, etc. War cannot be waged without, and sustained war would require immense amounts. The Chinese goal would be to acquire these resources by colonizing and extracting from distant lands (like Imperial Japan in WW2) and the U.S. goal would be to blockade China with its navy to prevent acquisition. China is truly desperate for energy, as they have chosen to invade Alaska to seize the pipelines. Its not hard to envision them invading many other countries and territories for resources as well.

Third, for China to invade Alaska they would have to move millions of men and tons of supplies in a vast logistical effort to cross the Pacific Ocean. Present U.S. Naval dominance would never allow that to occur. This tells me the U.S. Pacific Fleet must have been disabled or largely so, probably in a first strike conducted by China (the Pearl Harbor of the Sino-American war).

And now for a big revelation - I believe China invaded the USSR at some point, and the USA and USSR are allies again like in WW2. There are immense reserves of oil in Siberia  that China would need to continue the war. Additionally, Russia is the closet point to Alaska and would be needed as a bridge to send millions of men to invade the U.S. China and the USSR are both communist, so they probably began as allies of convenience to counter the USA, only to have China launch the new Barbarossa.

China could not stand on its own against the USA and USSR combined. This tells me there is another hegemonic power that is keeping USSR forces occupied and preventing them from being deployed in full against the Chinese. All we know about Europe in the lore is that the European Union is disintegrating into war between member states following the fiasco during the Resource Wars. But its not hard to see a scenario where a militant EU is rising, dominated by Germany, mobilizing its vast industrial potential and wealth, perhaps controlled by a resurgence of National Socialism, and building a massive army to hold the EU together as member states seek to leave it.

Perhaps China and this hard line EU (or Fourth Reich) conspired to simultaneously invade the USSR - a two front war that Hitler could only have dreamed of when he planned Barbarossa.

The USA would seek to preserve Britain, and free up the USSR forces to help with China, so they too would be enemies of this new German Reich and would be active participants in a European war even as they fight the Chinese.

In the Pacific War, I believe the following countries would be major battlefields between the USA and China - Taiwan, Japan, Korea, the Philippines, Indo-China, Indonesia and Malaysia, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand. In addition to U.S. territories such as Hawaii, Guam and the Marshall Islands.

India would be a vital ally to the United States. They would counter China's vast manpower advantage with their own billions in population, tying up enormous amounts of Chinese forces that would be better used elsewhere. They would also help the U.S. Navy block key Chinese shipping lanes from the Middle East that pass near its coast.

I have no idea what is happening in the Middle East as there is zero lore after the Resource War. I envision a reformed Islamic Caliphate or something like that generated out of the chaos and vacuum that was left behind. I believe they would oppose the USA and ally with China and the Reich. This would be the equivalent of the Afrikorps campaign of WW2.
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Voyevoda1

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PostSubject: Re: The great war in other parts of the world   The great war in other parts of the world EmptyFri 5 Apr 2019 - 4:49

@jacktrenton Very interesting lore refrencing. I looked up a lot of backhistory for my playthrough i'm currently playing but this is above and beyond.

I think the fact that the world was locked into a resourse war as the cause of the original war, it is said that the original Black Isle games dev's were contemplating using Russia as the main antagonist to the pre-war America you see in the Fallout universe. If the story is to be believed, one of the dev's contacted someone in Russia and he heard gunshots in the backround on the phone call, and said ti himself/herself "Russia isn't the superpower we think it is" and elected to use China as the communist antagonists in stead.

I think that's one of the more interesting parts about Fallout, Russia as the "Bad Guy" has been done to death, and the fact that China is the pre-war superpower to contend with America influences the weapons, style, enemies and culture to a certain extent.

While the pre-war setting is important tp the Fallout universe as a whole, I think as the Fallout games move further and further away from the Great War, the less important it becomes. In terms of setting for future games I think it matters less what was going on in that region before the war. Las Vegas is a great location because of it's landmarks and I think where Fallout 4 fails to deliver on any kind of identity is because they try and keep old world influences and cultures alive in their games, even though its been nearly 300 hundred years in the future. The less radiation becomes a problem, the more its kind of like "...well why is this place still a shithole?". I know it's not really fitting to compare real life in terms of time considering the power of modern society and laws, but 300 yeaes ago from today we didn't even have electricity, so it's kind of like "What has everyone been doing for 300 years."

Fallout 3 is exempt from this argument because of the Vault, and how bombarded the capital was, because thats probably what would happen if America had to sustain a nuclear assault. The vault plays inot that story because you feel like you're walinig from a clean, sterile and literally sheltered life into a wasteland. Fallout 4 feels like it didn't need the pre war section, and the shoe-horned cryogenic freezing being part of it's main quest doesn't work for that reason.

Overall, the setting of these games are important, and the history of the warzones globally do have an effect on the gameworld we play these games in, but I think that with the passage of time, this will or should be less important to the game as a whole. It would be interesting to hear about some of these locations, but actually going there I think would only be a disappoinment as a whole. The inclusion of small pre-war dynasty factions (e.g Fallout 2's Shi) are also something you could do, btu again it is hard to get right without coming across as contrived, or shoe-horned in for the sake of being there. The fallout universe as a whole needs to cater to the wasteland that it is, in stead of catering to pre-war ideals and societies that no longer apply to a world without law or reason.

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ahyuser001

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PostSubject: Re: The great war in other parts of the world   The great war in other parts of the world EmptyWed 10 Apr 2019 - 19:08

@jacktrenton I doubt the theory on a US-USSR alliance because the lore suggests that they were in a perpetual state of wariness. They slowed down on the arms race and have warmer relations based on the wiki but the distrust is still there.

In fact I doubt anyone could assist the US during that time because most of the nations were either quarreling with each other/were bankrupt because of the oil shortage. China doesn't have anything to fear in the west aside from the US because of the ongoing conflict happening there.

The middle east was also left in ruin because they were nuked when European Commonwealth invaded them for their oil before the super state dissolved so I doubt that an Islamic Caliphate would be created during the Resource Wars.

It is also suggested on the wiki that South East Asia was annexed by China during the resource wars so I doubt that the nations there could help with the war.

In my head China took advantage of this conflict to take Alaska from the US because of the oil shortage by sending bombers and troops via plane and submarine so the US responded by sending troops there annexing Canada in the process. In the later parts of the war, the US made a counter offensive in the Pacific and took Nanjing and Shanghai after developing power armor then the world went crazy and nuked itself.

You can look at the reference yourself on the links below. I am a bit rusty with the Fallout Bible though so I just looked at the wiki and may have gotten a thing or two wrong.

Fallout Bible
Great War
European Commonwealth
Soviet Union
China
Resource Wars

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Tribal Raven

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PostSubject: Re: The great war in other parts of the world   The great war in other parts of the world EmptySat 13 Apr 2019 - 11:18

Great theories, this made a very interesting read.

I agree with @ahyuser001 on the lack of a US/USSR alliance.

I simply believe that logically, Russia had consumed itself or was annexed by China.

I see no other way that China could have moved on Anchorage without having resources so near by as Russia.

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PostSubject: Re: The great war in other parts of the world   The great war in other parts of the world EmptySun 14 Apr 2019 - 10:39

@Tribal Raven It is also possible that they used carriers to carry bombers and planes that would carry troops. China was a superpower in the Fallout timeline so that is possible.

I looked at google maps out of curiosity and the areas in Russia that is near Alaska is very mountainous which makes it hard, logistics-wise, to send troops. I guess they could have created a makeshift airport but it would have taken a long time. Too long that it would have been noticed by the Americans and let them prepare a defense against it.

I suspect that China used Carriers and Submarines to invade the US during the resource wars.

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conn11399

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PostSubject: Re: The great war in other parts of the world   The great war in other parts of the world EmptySun 14 Apr 2019 - 14:19

*hits blunt* *clears throat* Orrrrr perhaps CHINA NEVER EXISTED and it was all the aliens man. The little dudes rigged the game from the start.

references: Zeta DLC and this blunt man

jk

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GoofyGoo6er

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PostSubject: Re: The great war in other parts of the world   The great war in other parts of the world EmptyWed 17 Apr 2019 - 7:04

Fallout 5 confirmed.
Fallout: Tibet.

Seriously though, even in a few cut scenes, or shorts, I'd love to see the war in Europe, the war in China, etc. It'd be awesome.
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Tribal Raven

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PostSubject: Re: The great war in other parts of the world   The great war in other parts of the world EmptySat 20 Apr 2019 - 20:05

Even though I doubt it will ever happen, it would be cool to experience Fallout in other locations around the world.

Obviously, Fallout is distinctly American and I highly doubt they will set the game in another locale but to experience what happened in another country say in Europe or even South America would be very interesting.

I just hope in a few years when Fallout 5 comes out, they will at least move the game to a new region of the US. The east coast has become rather dull compared to the American Southwest.

Personally, I'm a stickler for the Gulf of Mexico and the Louisiana region.

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