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 Favorite Faction

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Maas

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PostSubject: Favorite Faction   Fri May 04, 2018 8:53 am

What is your favorite faction in all of fallout?

Personally I always really enjoyed caesar’s legion. Not because I believed them or their cause, but the obsidian writers actually made them nuanced and gave reason for how they acted. The part of the game in which you talk to caesar and he explains his ideologies is great, him providing an actual, real critique of democracy. Also, I liked the aesthetic of the legion, the roman inspired armors are really cool and fit fallout and the mojave wasteland. Another thing I really liked about the legion and new vegas in general was how the writers were able to add small touches that improved the depth of the mojave. As you could tell someone’s stance on the legion simply by how they would say “caesar”
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Fri May 04, 2018 12:04 pm

Caesar offered an interesting critique of democracy, but the raider gang he'd put together was flawed beyond belief. He was sort of like a naked emperor bragging about his new clothes. I wish he'd created a culture as smart as his pontificating, a genuine challenge to the flaws of democracy, rather than anti-drug versions of the fiends. Had his followers been a little more like him and a little less like talking cazadores, and a little less sexist, they would have perhaps been the most interesting playable faction in gaming.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Fri May 04, 2018 1:06 pm

The Deathclaw Preservation Society. It is as if the creators of Fallout: Tactics could see a snippet of future America.

Jokes aside, I used to think the Union of Atomic Workers was an awesome faction when I talked to Jake when I was in the Hub. It was this faction with advanced technology and was isolationists. I tried to look for them but I learned that they were wiped out by Mutants so...

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Fri May 04, 2018 1:51 pm

@Sirdanest yeah thats true, I guess the actual followers of the legion were nothing more than glorified raiders. I still feel like their brutality was still somewhat reflective of caesar’s ideals though and was warranted. It also somewhat makes sense though if you look at who the legion is comprised of; the majority of tribes that entrenched themselves in the mojave, this including raider gangs.

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Fri May 04, 2018 2:10 pm

The sexism is problematic; not that a roman raider gang can't or shouldn't be sexist, but it makes a female Courier's support of Caesar sort of ridiculous. And Caesar's tolerance of a heavily armed, dangerous female courier goes against everything we know about him. A woman supremely capable in combat (and potentially educated, and maybe on some heavy drugs, depending on your courier) would be a terrible threat to the culture he's trying to create. And the courier knows or finds out that Caesar betrays all of his alliances -- it's absolutely plausible that Caesar would betray a female courier, so supporting him is a seemingly suicidal choice.
So, for the legion to make sense as a joinable faction, one pretty much as to be playing a male courier, and that's an unusual design choice for a game like this. Not wrong, but not really perfect from a game design choice.
But the simple idea of a faction that represents a counter point to democracy and a viable reason as to why the old world shouldnt just be reborn, is a great idea. Caesar tacks on all kinds of atrocities and evils, however, that aren't necessary to simply be the "anti-democracy" faction. Painted simply as militant anti-democracy and no more, it would have been fantastic.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Fri May 04, 2018 2:50 pm

@Sirdanest I agree that it seems completely illogical for a female courier to pursue the legion and gameplay wise this seems off / inneffective, but I think that this was done on purpose. No faction in new vegas was meant to be equal or be a perfect portrayal of a completely gray morality choice. Caesar’s legion parallels that of a militaristic haneous society, one that would see women as weak and see men as the warriors. You have to look no more forward than to modern terrorist groups such as isis or the Taliban. These groups seeming idealistically similar to caesar’s legion; looking for a specific subset of civilization to be the rightful leaders of an area of land.
I guess what i’m saying is that I agree with you in that from a gameplay perspective the choice between legion and ncr aren’t completely equal and even somewhat flawed. But from a writing and story perspective the two sides have strong ideals, reflective of modern day ideologies.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Fri May 04, 2018 2:59 pm

If you're creating an evil faction vs a less evil faction, the legion was designed right. But if their purpose was to simply be a counter-point to Democracy, they went wrong.
Caesar would have been better portrayed as a dictatorship that was otherwise merit-based, as opposed to a democracy where a leader could gain power through wealth and charisma, but still not be a great leader. Caesar's chosen heir would be no Oliver or Kimball, but someone truly worthy.
Ironically Monarchies sometimes allowed women to have power, when democracies often put women second, even when on paper they aren't supposed to.
It would have been more interesting, in my opinion, had Vulpes been a woman in a merit-based Legion, chosen for ruthless merit rather than wealth, fame or charisma like the NCR likely does with its politicians. yeah, it's hard to picture now, but hindsight...
Because ultimately, Caesar was saying that the NCR simply doesn't have the merit to rule humanity without repeating the past, and he's probably right. But that doesn't mean that a raider gang becomes the right alternate choice by default.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Fri May 04, 2018 3:06 pm

Yeah that would be interesting and youre definitely right that that would have made caesar’s legion even more intersting and probably would have improved the dynamic of the story. Probably making the eventual choice between legion and NCR much more reflective of ones true point of view of society and where their morals lie. Good stuff dude.
Youre making me actually rethink this question now lol
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Sun May 06, 2018 1:41 pm

Iv always been a Enclave guy. And that's not just because I like there armor and tech, Iv always just been more found of the more militaristic factions and groups in video games. Its just something about having powerful fighting forces with superior weapons and tech from every one else to make a super power of a faction, is just really cool. know I also like the brotherhood mainly the east coast brother hood. but yea those are my favorite factions in the fallout universe
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Sun May 06, 2018 6:53 pm

The people of Far Harbor in the Far Harbor DLC. They're the descendants of my people, since I'm from Bar Harbor, Maine, so I have a strong spiritual connection with them.

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Tue May 15, 2018 6:41 am

Maybe i'm the only one but i really enjoy the minutemen. I mean they are pretty bland, but in my own head cannon they are much more interesting. Love the Minutemen.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:25 pm

@sgtrock31 wrote:
Maybe i'm the only one but i really enjoy the minutemen. I mean they are pretty bland, but in my own head cannon they are much more interesting. Love the Minutemen.

I think a lot of people hate Minutemen only because of Preston Garvey. In fact, I think the Minutemen is the most unselfish and non evil faction in Fallout series, the Follwers comes close. It will definitely be my favorite if he wasn't so annoying so I'm going with Brotherhood of Steel as my favorite.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:50 pm

I liked the enclave they always seemed Badass to me as a kid the remnants of the American military Rises from the ashes to continue the american dream (though very corrupt now)
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:39 am

Powder gangers for life. Best lore, dialogue, quests, items, characters.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:13 am

I'm feeling a song come along (as in, a mini essay point)

Imma talk about the Brotherhood of Steel in the original Fallout, because, thanks to all the other games loving them so much, they're kinda forgotten thanks to the likes of Arthur Maxson, Elder and Sarah Lyons, Father Elijah etc.

But here's what I like about the original Fallout BOS. They're bad guys. Anti-heroes to be specific but they only help you because they realise that the Mutants are as much a threat to them as the rest of the Wasteland.

Think about it. The very first thing you see in Fallout is an old propaganda advert of two men in power armour executing a man in the street. These two men are apparently soldiers who have just taken part in the annexation of Canada, so when they smile and wave at the camera it's pretty sinister. Immediately you have been told: people in power armour are dangerous, and definitely not your friends. The army of the old world was akin to the soldiders of Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four, the military element of a dystopian world and fascistic totalitarian government.

So when you do run into the Brotherhood of Steel, you know to be wary. And with good reason. Cabbot, the guy at the bunker door in the exact same power armour as the men in the advert, also smiles and tells you you can only enter their HQ if you pick up something from the Glow. For a lot of new players there's a good chance you'll head straight to the Glow not realising that without anti-radiation supplies you will die. The Glow was an old research base, so naturally it'd had hell and high water bombed out of it. You're sent there to die, the fact that you don't genuinely proves your worth to them.

It's important to remember that the Brotherhood of Steel and Enclave share an ancestry. The Brotherhood of Steel were originally supposed to guard the Mariposa Military Base and oversee the creation of super soldiers. They were just as much a part of the old totalitarian military as the Enclave were. Captain Roger Maxson's story is pretty grim, describing how his interrogations of the scientists always ended in executions. While it is good that the soldiers were moral enough to protest the scientists experimenting on military prisoners, their methods are pretty questionable. They are soldiers from a society bred on violence and taught to see life as expendable.

Even when you do get into the Brotherhood of Steel base, you have to do favours with just about everyone. You have to rescue a Brotherhood Scout to get access to weapons. You have to repair the Power Armour yourself to claim ownership of it. You have to investigate the Mariposa military base yourself before the Elders will consider helping take down the Mutants. Simply put, the Brotherhood don't care about you, and are only out for themselves.

And that's why I like them. They're not good, nor necessarily bad, but they're an interesting offshoot of the pre-war government. They're fanatical in their own isolationism. It makes a lot of sense that they would eventually develop a medieval knight complex, and with that a dangerous hero complex, to the point that they would eventually attempt a war with the fledgling Californian government. To put it simply, they have a lot of contempt for a humanity they believe they are protecting, and for that reason they are fascinating.

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:34 am

The NCR

I love them, I like their design, I like their methods and I even support their ideology
There's just something about a well established (if poorly) democracy trying to keep things in order that I find fascinating
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:01 pm

@Visible Earth wrote:


But here's what I like about the original Fallout BOS. They're bad guys.

It's where Fallout 3 really went wrong. Luckily Obsidian and Fallout 4 created a BOS that is more complicated. They're different chapters of the organization, so they don't need to be the same, but they aren't just bland good guys again.
I like that Fallout doesn't usually have a "perfect, flawless, strong, good guy faction," and now even Bethesda seems to understand that much at least. I like that about Fallout -- but interestingly enough, I didn't like it about Skyrim. It annoyed me that both sides in the Skyrim civil war seemed too flawed (in different ways) to catch my interest. An "independent" option against both sides, would have been overwhelmingly superior in my eyes, had it existed.

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:25 pm

my favorites are the Institute and the Children of Atom, in that order. the Institute because, if they got their shit together, they could reach the point of scientific advancement to where they could quite literally re-terraform the Commonwealth and beyond it (maybe even the world at one point, probably centuries to go but still a possibility), almost like what many people theorize about what we intend to do with Mars someday. plus, robots are cool, and i love synths and the moral discussions and debates that come with them.

the second favorite being the Children of Atom because lolz, also in the Fallout Universe they actually oddly enough seem to not be so "basketcase-y" as they seem, especially if you join them as a faction in the Far Harbor DLC. after all, the player character experiences seeing some shadow-woman that many others have seen and supernatural aspects play a part (whether it's extremely small or not) in Fallout. Dunwich horrors, anyone? ...i gotta admit though, i mostly like the COT because of the many memes associated with 'em.
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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:55 pm

Either the Institute or the Enclave, tough to say.

I like the Institute due to how they think of the East Coast, they know it is shit and realize that there might actually be no saving it and the best option might be to just abandon everyone on the surface. Plus they have that whole "Mass Effect" look to everything, which I love.

As for the Enclave I like them as they didn't care what they had to do to return America to the way it was, their priority was to get it done no matter the cost.

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PostSubject: Re: Favorite Faction   Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:18 pm

The NCR is my favorite good faction. I like their uniforms and military functionality. But I also like the enclave for their ruthless operations. The way they dominate the wasteland with superior firepower and air supremacy is badass.

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