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 Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?

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Sirdanest

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyThu May 28, 2020 9:07 pm

Some people I guess are assuming that the only way to include cars is to have them as personal driving vehicles like xre cars mod, which is problematic from an engine standpoint, mapsize issues, drive-able terrain, and the sheer power of their speed and ramming. But, kinda fun.
But a car could simply be a way of doing some kind of fast travel. Something like it was in fallout 2, which worked great.
The brotherhood vertibird travel in fallout worked great for me, I loved watching the view while travelling overhead.
Maybe a self-driving car was repaired, that only travels between pre-set prewar routes. I just have trouble understanding a world where vertibirds and airships can be produced, but land vehicles are completely impossible.
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DrumstickBrainTickin246

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptySat May 30, 2020 11:44 pm

@Sirdanest wrote:
To the people against vehicles, do you believe that fallout 2 was wrong to include a repairable working car?  
Vehicles really are part of the lore.  The fallout wiki says that the NCR has a mechanized division, trucks, jeeps, tanks and a working train.  
I mean, you gotta wonder where they are in New Vegas, but who knows.  Maybe they're being kept out of combat zones where the NCR could lose them to the enemy, being kept under guard for home defense.  
I assume the people who are against all cars are relatively new players, post-dating the original two games.  But to an old timer like me, cars are just a thing that can exist in fallout, alongside talking animals and star trek phasers and dr who and the monty python and the holy hand grenade.    Yeah, the newer games really cut back on the weirdness and the potential copyright violations.  Smile

Cars/vehicles work fine as a fast-travel option (like in FO2 or the train in TTW), and they are definitely part of the lore. My issue with them is more making them fit into the game world organically.

For example, in GTA5, the world is huge and designed around vehicle travel. You can travel on foot in the world, but that's clearly secondary to directly driving vehicles. Fallout 4 is the exact opposite.... settlements/locations are at most separated by ~50-100 feet. You'd drive across the entire game world in ~2-3 minutes, unless mountains/rivers were in the way.

At best I could see a middle-ground compromise like Skyrim's world, where vehicles are just very slowed down like horses. Locations tend to have much more space in between each other, to incentivize the player to use horses, vs walking everywhere.
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njmanga097

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptySun May 31, 2020 9:55 am

After going through the Caspian level in Metro Exodus, I think having a driveable vehicle instead of fast travel would be a great thing to have in the fallout series. I also think it would make sense that there's a working vehicle somewhere in the wasteland because if they got teleportation, cloning, gene splicing, even get a big blimp like the Prydwen working I don't see why a working car can't be possible. Considering that the technologies mentioned are a lot more complex as compared to a car, I couldn't think of a reason why cars still do not work.

tl;dr yes I want to see functional cars in future fallout games
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CommunistDragon

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptySun May 31, 2020 7:19 pm

I personally would like to see it, it’s heavily implied that the NCR has functional vehicles. But you never see any of them around. I would expect a country like the NCR would be able to salvage factories and produce their own makeshift cars and tanks.
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Wertologist

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptySun May 31, 2020 10:48 pm

While it seems like it'd be a good idea, I think it'd hurt the gameplay more.

The main issue would be that in order for a vehicle to have any practical use, you'd need areas big enough to warrant driving them over walking. The problem with that is that it's an open world kind of game so it's hard to space things properly. Everything would have to be within a short enough distance to walk, but long enough distance to drive. Finding that distance sweet spot is very difficult and having to do that for damn near every location in the game would be crazy.

Alternatively, you'd just go the Borderlands route where there are areas for on foot and then driving areas, but once you do that, there isn't really an option for walking instead. Imagine trying to do Borderlands without vehicles. Walking all those large open areas would be maddening.

The reason horses work in Elder Scrolls is because they're small enough to maneuver around and it makes sense why they can go on more than just roads. Cars can't really just do 90 degree turns and hike up a hill while weaving around trees and rocks. A car is more clunky. A bike would be better, but it still wouldn't work well unless they just made the bikes act unrealistic. But even then, having just bikes would be pretty dull.

There would also be the problem with getting the vehicles stuck, losing them, or having them blown up. Say you used a car to go a long distance that would have taken a long time on foot and then the game decides to randomly launch your car into the stratosphere because you tripped on a can as you stepped out. Then what? Walk back? If that area was designed to pretty much force you to get a car to get to, you're kinda shit out of luck. Also, if it has a storage system, you're kinda screwed if it gets lost. What if you parked at a subway tunnel because you wanted to explore, but when you finally get out, you're a couple miles away? The car won't come to you if you whistle or anything so you're shit out of luck there too.

There are a lot of issues with having cars in it. It worked in the originals because the car was pretty much just a fast travel thing and you didn't really drive it. So while it would be cool, I don't think it'd work out well.
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GenericRifleman

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jun 01, 2020 12:34 am

After Metro, like a few folks, I think I'd be open to vehicles in Fallout. They'd definitely have to like, make a better map that can accommodate the vehicles. We see so many mentions and clear world evidence (FNV) of usable vehicles still existing. You'd really figure there'd be at least some form of vehicle we can use as players. Plus, how hasn't Fallout capitalized on Mad Max esc shenanigans?
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Zerk

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jun 01, 2020 6:28 am

If the map would be big, like REALLY big, then yes.

But I also prefer to use horse and brahmin mount instead of vehicles, it fits better I think, even more if fallout 5 would be set in a desert.
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Sirdanest

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jun 01, 2020 3:34 pm

I think we might as well have a car that comes when it's called. So many games have impossibly teleporting horses and not that many people seem to complain.
But yeah, the cars will get stuck, they just aren't meant to drive through the kind of terrain we see so often in fallout games.
Also, it'd let you casually flee from,or ram to death so many enemies, that alone would almost force countless other driving enemies. With the XRE car mod, you could casually and quickly drive past the deathclaws from goodsprings to vegas without a hitch. It changes everything completely, even though part of me loves it, it's still unbalancing with the power it grants that the game wasn't originally built to handle.
It's why I prefer the vertibirds, they go only to specific locations; something like a train or a restored self-driving car with a set ai for only certain destinations would work.
But I can't see free form sandbox driving working in fallout as we know it.
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Drutar

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 17, 2020 10:29 am

Hard to imagine. Not just because of the size of the maps, but simply because the current games are designed in a very different way, not really compatible with vehicles. You're supposed to encounter enemies, or friendly NPCs at least every few minutes, discover vaults, bunkers, all kinds buildings way off the roads. Vehicles would require a fundamental change in map design. It should be more like GTA or something like that. It would also feel weird lore-wise. They would need to come up with a really good explanation why no one used vehicles until this point, and why it became a common thing now.

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lzInfinitezl

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 17, 2020 5:03 pm

It would be amazing if they implemented vehicles you can drive into a fallout game (That handle similar to Rage 2 vehicles for example). Maybe they could make a sections of the map inaccessible to vehicles (in large cities) to keep the traditional Fallout feel (Walking the Wasteland) but add vehicles to travel in between main areas of the map, similar to how Fallout 2 worked.
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DrumstickBrainTickin246

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 18, 2020 1:40 am

Honestly, thinking about it now.... after Automatron DLC for fallout 4, there could probably be an argument for robot-based cars or wagons. And it just sounds kind of fun to strap a chair to a sentry bot, and roll off into the country side.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 21, 2020 1:36 am

right now it's a world where vertibirds and airships are built, even though they are like more complex than a car (or deeply unrealistic like the Prydwen), but not land vehicles of any kind, at least not that we've seen onscreen.
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blahblahblah

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 21, 2020 2:03 am

Wouldnt that make a bunch of empty space in the world? For roads i mean. Vertibirds would be fine actually

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Daltonrules

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jun 29, 2020 4:56 pm

I think it would be an interesting idea. I wouldlove to be able to fly a vertibird in a dogfight mission. That is why I am looking foward to the Frontier.
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Sonichu_fanboy

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jun 29, 2020 5:07 pm

Part of me says yes, because there vehicles in fallout tactics, and it was a fun little toy that you could use(granted, unmodified, you can only use them for combat in the map they are introduced or in random encounters, but I modified them to be brought into missions, and they are a genuine tool, if you want to spec into it)

But then I remember this is bethesda we are talking about, so unless the vehicle is used like the vertibird in fallout 4, as a means of transportation(or maybe a train, like van buren would have had, both for quick travel and for establishing trade routes), I don't think so. The engine is simply too old and outdated to have proper vehicles, they would spend too much time tweaking it, and they would justify that time spend by making it a passive aggressive core part of the gameplay(think: settlements in fallout 4, technically, you can never touch them if you don't want to, but a good chunk of gameplay revolves around them, and you are missing out on about half the game's content if you completely ignore them)

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jun 29, 2020 5:50 pm

@Sonichu_fanboy wrote:
The engine is simply too old and outdated to have proper vehicles, they would spend too much time tweaking it, and they would justify that time spend by making it a passive aggressive core part of the gameplay)

Not trying to be rude but you and 99% of people who complain about the Bethesda's engine being too old have no idea what you're talking about. Game engines are modular pieces of software that are meant to be broken apart and updated as needed. Do you throw away your whole computer when you need to upgrade the video card? Do you people think that Source gets rewritten with each iteration? How about Unreal? If you think that Gamebryo is old than Unreal must be downright ancient.

There's also nothing inherent about a physics API with the game engine. What you mean to say is the way they have used Havok is not sufficient for vehicles and to that I would agree.

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Sonichu_fanboy

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jun 29, 2020 9:10 pm

@momuse88 wrote:
@Sonichu_fanboy wrote:
The engine is simply too old and outdated to have proper vehicles, they would spend too much time tweaking it, and they would justify that time spend by making it a passive aggressive core part of the gameplay)

Not trying to be rude but you and 99% of people who complain about the Bethesda's engine being too old have no idea what you're talking about. Game engines are modular pieces of software that are meant to be broken apart and updated as needed. Do you throw away your whole computer when you need to upgrade the video card? Do you people think that Source gets rewritten with each iteration? How about Unreal? If you think that Gamebryo is old than Unreal must be downright ancient.

There's also nothing inherent about a physics API with the game engine. What you mean to say is the way they have used Havok is not sufficient for vehicles and to that I would agree.

I can see where you're coming from, but all I need to present in return is Fallout 76: Bethesda's engine simply can't cut it anymore. That game was a disaster on an existential scale from day one, but the unmitigated disaster that people still meme about is how out of it's depth the gamebryo/creation engine is for an online multiplayer game, which is very ironic, considering that both the older version of the engine, and even the oldschool fallout 1/2/tactics engine handled online play, even on a larger scale, much better(Multiple MMO fan projects in f1/f2/ engine, as well as a working multiplayer mode for new vegas, and for the younger posters, fallout tactics came with a small multiplayer mode, which even included a CTF. Words wouldn't give it justice how enjoyable it was, despite it clearly being a janky rush job, for how small of a role it played, but it was still more well thought out and balanced than than the entirety of fallout 76, a game with an infinitely bigger dev team, marketing and budget).

Now, vehicles might not be impossible to do in this engine, but they're nigh impossible to do right, as in, to be enjoyable, especially by the team of hacks that work at bethesda. Here are a few treasures that people might have forgotten about, for example:

*The vertibirds in fallout 3 are propelled in the air by a series of invisible explosions(noticeable when they are "flying" away, barely lifting off the ground at first, but "flying" away cartoonishly fast after that, a la garry's mod style, if somebody wants to have a laugh and propel a car or something in the air using a few metric tons of detonated explosives, it's literally just that, but done a tad bit more smoothly)
*The "Train ride" in the latter half of broken steel(and the introduction scene in point lookout, boat segment) are just fancy hats that the game forces you to put on(and forces first person on you), and then simply forces the player to run a certain route, to "simulate" vehicle behavior
*The vertibirds in fallout 4 are literally just mountable dragons with minigun turrets and fancy death animations, not to be outdone by literal giant dragons in fallout 76, by the name of "scorchbeasts"(those are, sadly, not mountable, might have redeemed that petty excuse of a game, not like anything else there pre-wastelanders made any sense, anyways)
The last example is about the closest bethesda has gotten to giving you a full working vehicle in their games, but even then, you can't directly control it, simply tell it where you want it to take you(as you sit with a thumb up your ass in the meantime, as they couldn't even program a satisfying weapon for you to play with in the mean time)

Any actual controllable vehicles, like motorcycles, cars or more, will be a similar series of hackjobs that they will hope people won't notice(and they will, because bethesda's modder base is more skilled and competent at this point, than they are). The setting for a vehicular-based fallout game has to be just right, anyways, it didn't work in F1 because the society is still too low tech for that, it worked in fallout 2 because society DID become advanced enough to scavenge a few working cars, it worked in fallout tactics because the brotherhood DOES have a whole corp of engineers, and both the tech to keep them maintained and the garages to keep said vehicles in(not to mention that most of the game takes place on open prairies, a perfect setting for a slightly open world game with controllable cars). In fallout 3, new vegas and 4, it would NOT work, as the games are too urban for anything other than aerial based ones(and new vegas is too small for even that, if somebody at obsidian was mad enough to try and implement a flying vehicle with their limited time table).

A fallout game with vehicles in mind would have to be engineered from the start for that, and again, I just don't see the todd and co. rising up to challenge. Even back when F3 was still made by black isle, they knew their limitations, and even tho they REALLY wanted to keep vehicles in the game in some way, shape or form, they knew it would be as an artificial means to an end(trains could be used to connect major, and player made, settlements, and create trade routes between them), or as mobile research bases for the player(crafting system akin to the one in fallout 4 was planned almost 2 decades ago, but only recently put in effect). Bethesda's "too big to fail" policy because they made skyrim 10 years ago, and their sheer hubris, would likely have them reaching for the metaphorical sun, and create something half assed like the settlement system in 4, that nobody but a  small minority of dedicated players really cared too much about, and something that would only be important in the main story for one or 2 gimmicky, forced sections for the rest of players, and that ridiculous amount of time and manpower that was spent thinking up and constructing that one whole gameplay feature could be used instead to:
*upgrade to a better engine
*create a bigger world, more quests, more weapons
*polish out the endless bugs that are inevitable with every release(ask obsidian how well introducing and integrating new gameplay features without the time for the former will work out for you)

I could go on, but the point I'm getting at is that fallout isn't call of duty, no matter how much pete hines or todd want it to be, and they can't afford to create a little toy for the players to play with for 15 minutes and move on to the next setpiece, that's not how open world RPGs work. Major gameplay features like those have to accommodate every player build, every situation, every quest, every possible scenario, and both feel like they belong in the game organically on their own, and to be fun to use(and for as much as I gave obsidian smack for putting them in when there was so much else they needed to focus on, what they did implement followed everything I just mentioned, so if they were given another year of development time, they would be a welcome addition to the game, and likely even more in depth, too), and if the folks at bethesda can't even understand those simple ethos, they can't hope to properly implement it into their game, let alone on a memey 20+yr old engine that can't even handle Player characters properly scaling ladders

And if words aren't enough for the non-believers, here is a video on how all of this would likely look in fallout 5 in action
https://invidio.us/watch?v=I9mjejnEJgY
Best case scenario I see is them hiring an outside team that specifically focuses on making FPS games and making a battlefield esque online spin off with working vehicles, I can't imagine how it could be fun in a single player experience. They should stick to perfecting the power armor system, as that actually worked quite well in fallout 4

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 30, 2020 9:42 am

Many words were written, but not much was actually said. You didn't even make an argument. All you said was, "Fo76 wasn't a very good MP game, mmkay." That may be the case but if you think it had something to do with the engine then you should feel obligated to tell why you think so.

- What are the software limitations of the current engine?

- Why is gamebryo special that it can no longer be iterated upon as all other game engines are?

- What upgrades would be necessary to "cut it" (your words, not mine).

If you can't answer a single one of these questions then you should just kindly acknowledge that you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about and you're just speaking out of your ass.

Listen man, we get it. You like games and have something to say about them, but that doesn't make you an engineer. So you should stop making a fool out of yourself Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 14, 2020 2:36 am

Vehicles would work in gamd with a much bigger map. Current style fallout likely wouldn't work. He'll the roads are unnaturally tiny. A fallout game would have to resemble rage or mad max more. Granted, I'd be fine with this. Big open spaces for driving break up the pacing more, and I find it to be better than just packing every square inch of the map with a dungeon or location like skyrim did.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5?   Do you want to see FUNCTIONAL VEHICLES in Fallout 5? - Page 2 EmptyTue Aug 18, 2020 2:07 am

Drive me around town, drive me up and down the Mount Round.

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