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 " I hate that idea stop it!" issues

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Sirdanest

Sirdanest

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PostSubject: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyTue Feb 25, 2020 4:21 pm

One thing I've noticed with mod requests (not necessarily here.)
A mod request will be made, and sometimes a whole bunch of people will jump in and say "I don't like that" "I don't want that" "It shouldn't be a mod."

Why?

Why does someone care about how another person mods their game? Why does it matter? Why would someone make any attempt at all to mess with another person's mod request?
I mean, so what if you don't like that mod idea... how does that matter? Are you being forced to use that mod? Of course not.

But it's pretty common on the internet, and I really don't understand it.
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gakusangi

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PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyTue Feb 25, 2020 5:39 pm

Guess I never really noticed anything like that before.
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BonnardCSC

BonnardCSC

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PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyTue Feb 25, 2020 7:16 pm

I mean I understand seeing toxicity of the community at times, we've all seen some folk get downright nasty. But apart from folks getting snotty & or complaining about compatibility issues I can't say I've ever seen folks out and out say that it shouldn't exist. Then again I can't say I delve into comments sections; They are a hazardous waste bin and a manifestation of Nietzsche's Abyss metaphor in cyberspace. The longer you gaze into them the greater the risk of being a part of the malign chaos.
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Sirdanest

Sirdanest

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PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyWed Feb 26, 2020 12:27 pm

The phenomenon happens once in a while on the nexus, and is fairly common "fight picking" on elsewhere last time I waded into the muck.
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Emperor Slyther

Emperor Slyther

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Name: Red Queen Amaryllis
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PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyWed Feb 26, 2020 2:10 pm

I came across this same behavior on the Nexusmods when I first started modding for the Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and back then it was called TESSource. I remember one guy in general, I'm not stating names, but when I made the first concepts of an AK-47 mod for Oblivion, basically it's a bow weapon, so if you wanna aim the rifle like in first person shooters and what not, you can do that by readying the bow (AK-47 skin) to fire, and it only stops soon as you release the arrow (bullet skin). I mean, I wasn't too keen on making these weapons a staff-bound thing, so I just went with the bow slot instead.

So yeah, that was that, and this guy who posted on my mod said "This kind of mod shouldn't be allowed on this site, it breaks the lore of the game, keep modern shit outta medieval style games" blah blah blah, I could go on. No way did I think my 2nd first mod really broke anything (site rules related, that is), I mean yeah. Mods are additions to the vanilla game, sure. And at first, I honestly didn't think his comment and rating would be removed by the Nexus staff, since they wanted mods voted on functionality, performance and how it works ingame, and not just how it looks in general. I thought the same rules applied to screenshots on there, but that's more of a DeviantArt style of rating system so one of their staff members have told me in the past.

But I'll tell you this, despite my previous efforts to roar back in their faces with a "If you don't like it, shut the fuck up and get outta my sight" kind of answer, this simply dismissing them as 'lore-nazis', others called them mod zealots or somewhat, I created the little term 'lore-nazi' and I can guarantee you it has NOTHING to do with the glorification of WW2 Germany or any of that crazy lunacy. No, to shine light on the confusion, this is what I deter people who take the lore of the game too seriously, I mean if you like playing the game to the nostalgia flavor of vanilla setting, good for you! I'm glad you enjoy the fruits of the original game unhinged by 'modernism' or so you call it, but don't force your ways on everyone. You can decide your own destiny, but you do NOT decide the destiny of others. So yeah, that's what the word 'lore-nazi' means to me. It's almost pretty accurate to defining mod zealotry, but in my own unique way. Individuals with this fitting description, they are wannabe dictators, and no different than that of the Thalmor from Skyrim for instance. But on a whole different perspective, and especially when it comes to mods in general.

At the end of the day, the toxicity of such communities are no different than what you would see on Twitter nowadays. There are alot of confused people out there, most of them with little self-esteem, I kid you not. The people masses of the information age are actually alot more stupider than the people of the stone age era. Have people today been skipping history lessons? Have some idiots been trying to rewrite history? Do people not care anymore? Have people lost the human feeling to empathize, and most of all, have people forgotten to "Live and let live"? Nope. Not my end, it's just a whole goddamn circus of endless conflict, and me and my friends just man the harpoons and the pitchforks to keep them crazies at bay whenever it happens.

_________________
I just,,, yeah... I'll let y'all figure it out...
Spoiler:
 


Last edited by Emperor Slyther on Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Arcades

Arcades

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PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyWed Feb 26, 2020 4:51 pm

I've noticed this but not even necessarily just relegated to mod requests. Tons of authors have pulled items because people can be super vicious about mods that nobody is making them install. It's kind of strange seeing people who are lore-fanatics berate some small mod author because their mod isn't deemed "lore-friendly" enough. It doesn't really happen super often, but I've seen it enough to think it's a bit of a problem.

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hyojin

hyojin

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PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyWed Feb 26, 2020 5:37 pm

This becomes an even worse issue when you're a mod developer because the more "alternatives" or "disliked parts" of a mod, the more the author is pressured into making alternate versions of the mod, ultimately forcing them to update many files when they find an issue that spans all of the versions.

Personally, if your project is focused on one very objective thing, then this should be less of an issue. If it's something subjective, then things get harder.
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Sirdanest

Sirdanest

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PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyWed Feb 26, 2020 6:02 pm

@Arcades wrote:
I've noticed this but not even necessarily just relegated to mod requests. Tons of authors have pulled items because people can be super vicious about mods that nobody is making them install. It's kind of strange seeing people who are lore-fanatics berate some small mod author because their mod isn't deemed "lore-friendly" enough. It doesn't really happen super often, but I've seen it enough to think it's a bit of a problem.

Yeah, it's not just mod requests. Sometimes people will see a new mod that they personally don't like, don't want to use, and will completely lose their temper at the mere existence of this mod. That someone might make it, that someone might use it, enrages some people, even though it absoluteloy does not effect their life. Some modders don't handle it too calmly. Don't like it, don't use it... isn't that simple? But it seems that the merest notion that someone,somewhere, is playing a game that isn't lore friendly is truly wounding these people.
I'm not sure what the psychology is here, unless it's just unbelievable arrogance.
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Emperor Slyther

Emperor Slyther

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PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyWed Feb 26, 2020 6:24 pm

In any case, I didn't necessarily make every mod that I ever released back then based on requests. The only time I did one, was basically something related to Halo. But I didn't want to use other assets in public formula, and insisted that I make the covenant elite armor from scratch. I never finished this request, nor did I had any interest of continuing it, as I am sure other modders who are fans of Halo have risked their neck uploading their bits and pieces on the Nexusmods back then, it was a matter of keeping things perfectly 'legal' on my end so that nobody could dispute me over copyright bullshit, plagiarism, etc., but hey. I at least made some progress with an armory of mine in FNV that will soon be public. Still in beta stages, need to test shit, etc., but this isn't about my mod.

But something that's not mod related, take TemTem for instance. Which is said to be Pokemon's successor on Steam later at some point. And it's a game, rather. My personal opinion of the name 'TemTem', is something that a six or seven year old would come up with, but who knows? I won't judge by it's name. We'll see if it can arouse it's fans with the hype or not.

Another interesting point of view on this subject is how it reminds me of the 'cancel culture' I have been seeing on different aspects of the internet mostly, around YouTube, Twitter, etc., and how they don't like the fanciest new thing that just came out to light, and they don't give you reasons why. All their mentality even over a simple anime fanart, and I quote "Deus Vult", they get so easily triggered and the one voice inside their heads say "Delete this...". But again, it's not just the people who download mods that get vicious and violent. As a result, modders like myself tend to lose their patience and flare up in rage because of such a toxic gathering, the likes that simply make one wish 'unlife' on something.

And I don't give a shit if people like my fanfic or not. I previously stated it's not for 'everyone' apparently. If people would stop freaking out over simple shit like this and learn to be mellow and calm like me when it comes to discovering new creations, and just accept the fact that people wish to live the moment in peace, and/or acknowledge that modding is a gift, people are free to accept and refuse as much as they want, and if they can do so without being so damn salty, maybe mod authors wouldn't have to pull their shit from the public realm and privatize them like we see much of their works here on GUN.

I don't keep all of my works private permanently for the result, as I am not afraid to share them in the open when it's complete and ready, there is a reason why I have voluntary beta testers and other friends who are willing to check my mods if I made any mistakes or errors, I never said modding was easy, but no matter if people like my mods or not, they can hate my work as much or little as they want, sure. Constructive criticism always helps to better the mod/idea, but TBH, I grow sick and tired of this pathetic 'cancel culture'. Nothing will stop me from doing the things I enjoy doing best, but we shouldn't let that cloud of toxic negativity override and overshadow what makes us ideologists who and what we are in general.

_________________
I just,,, yeah... I'll let y'all figure it out...
Spoiler:
 
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Sirdanest

Sirdanest

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PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyWed Feb 26, 2020 8:29 pm

Another thing is unnecessary (for the topic at least) real world arguments. Real world arguments have their place, but sometimes they're off-topic.

Tropico is one offender here. It's not the most moddable series in the world,but,since the game uses the words "capitalism" and "communism" it's not out of the question that one or both sides (or more) will start ripping each other's throats out, raging over the definition, consequences, and real world effects of the two political/economic words. While I know why politics are important, we're still talking about modding a game and real life will not be modded or changed by such a thing.

I even saw an off-topic argument over bioshock turn ugly, over real world politics and religion.

Frankly I'm amazed that the real world political arguments haven't intruded more into discussions about fallout factions and endings... relieved on that one.

That being said, if I were posting this on elsewhere, I am almost sure it would now devolve into a furious, off-topic real-world debate about communism and capitalism. Wink


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Emperor Slyther

Emperor Slyther

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" I hate that idea stop it!" issues Empty
PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyWed Feb 26, 2020 8:52 pm

I'm fairly certain I didn't highlight politics or their political parties in discussion of this subject, nor did I intend to drift things off-topic. I'll admit I do have a habit of writing lengthy paragraphs when in any conversation but I suppose that's the point of even having a conversation, though even where there is a clash of right vs. left, I tend to avoid that because politics obviously leads to,,, well y'know,,, conflict... Friendships are broken up, enemies are made over politics. Which is understandable why this community forbids such escalations on 'extreme' blowouts.

There are plenty of people around the world and on the internet that seek the common purpose of engaging each other in conversations in a most civil manner, I for one try to be one of these people, because it's always interesting to learn a thing or two, while sharing knowledge on what you already know, even when it comes down to reading every last bit of the OP's post, and trying to answer it to the best of my ability. If of course, dealing with the least informed and arrogant types, I often must question them why. And if all I get is an idiotic or hostile unintelligent answer, I tend to stay away from these kinds of people.

But politics or not, that is something even the white knighters of Twitter would try to force upon individuals much like myself and you, always forcing people to do it their way, etc., etc., but I don't play the identity politics game. I question everything, including the authoritative power structure we all live under. I won't be divided over the problems of one group or another, and always must call out the bullshit whenever I see it. I can't say I even played Tropico and I don't care much for it.

But yeah, discussions like this elsewhere would drive most people nuts. An endless war of hate words, need I say the obvious? Flame wars, death threats, etc., and I've seen plenty of that in that 'elsewhere'... I for one, do not approve of ideas and/or mod requests being hated upon because a group of crazies might very likely push hate on it and whatnot.

_________________
I just,,, yeah... I'll let y'all figure it out...
Spoiler:
 
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Sirdanest

Sirdanest

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PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyWed Feb 26, 2020 9:40 pm

oh, I wasn't accusing anyone here of doing itl This place is usually pretty civil especially compared to some places on the internet. The anger is more often directed at modders anyway, I think.
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hyojin

hyojin

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PostSubject: Re: " I hate that idea stop it!" issues   " I hate that idea stop it!" issues EmptyWed Feb 26, 2020 10:23 pm

I didn't even think that cancel culture was an extension of this but I can see how it is. Must be horrible for other creators to feel like they're being cancelled because a group of people who don't prefer their content are banding together and flaming.
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