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 Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta?

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burner9875

burner9875

Posts : 172
Join date : 2018-02-19
Age : 17
Location : Canada

Character sheet
Name: Raul Alfonso Tejada
Faction: Vaquero
Level: 37

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? Empty
PostSubject: Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta?   Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 11:40 am

How do people in the community feel about NPC's such as Benny and Vulpes Inculta both are intelligent character who use the there intelligence to further themselves. Like Vulpes's scheme to destroy Camp Searchlight should this action be looked down upon for the damage it caused or should it be looked as inspiration for who to win war with intelligence/schemes more so than pure force? Benny is very similar he schemes to take over Vegas and his plan didn't end up working out for him as well as Vulpes's but many people choose to side with Yes Man does this make you just as bad as Benny even if the person intends to be a fair leader they just put a robot in control of the Mojave's future a robot that is trying to become self dependent. Anyways I was just wondering how others in the community viewed these NPC's?

_________________
"Well, assuming you survive the radiation sickness, the lynch mobs, and the possibility of going feral, one day you'll get old and decrepit, like me." - Raul Alfonso Tejada, 2281

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? 7a996912
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gavin gold

gavin gold

Posts : 127
Join date : 2019-08-19
Age : 24
Location : Costa Rica

Character sheet
Name: Gavin Gold
Faction: House
Level: 50

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta?   Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 6:51 pm

There's nothing wrong with using intelligence and cunning to advance your goals. What really matters is what are the goals you're trying to advance.

So both Benny and Vulpes must burn.
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burner9875

burner9875

Posts : 172
Join date : 2018-02-19
Age : 17
Location : Canada

Character sheet
Name: Raul Alfonso Tejada
Faction: Vaquero
Level: 37

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta?   Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 8:10 pm

@"gavin gold" but than that asks the question does this apply to the player if he helps Yes Man because ithe courier does that then you are basically Benny.

_________________
"Well, assuming you survive the radiation sickness, the lynch mobs, and the possibility of going feral, one day you'll get old and decrepit, like me." - Raul Alfonso Tejada, 2281

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? 7a996912
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gavin gold

gavin gold

Posts : 127
Join date : 2019-08-19
Age : 24
Location : Costa Rica

Character sheet
Name: Gavin Gold
Faction: House
Level: 50

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta?   Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 8:38 pm

@"burner9875" Sure, then my argument would be that I don't think you should side with Yes Man, in the same way that I don't think you should side with the Legion. I argue this a bit in a topic I posted called "Why House is the only real option". Going independent accomplishes absolutely nothing because there's nothing you can get by killing House that you couldn't get by working with him. In fact, in the long run you're depriving yourself of incredibly valuable technologies, such as life extension. You're objectively worse off by going independent than by siding with House. And siding with either the NCR, or the legion is just plain weird.
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burner9875

burner9875

Posts : 172
Join date : 2018-02-19
Age : 17
Location : Canada

Character sheet
Name: Raul Alfonso Tejada
Faction: Vaquero
Level: 37

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta?   Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 8:44 pm

Yep for longevity and the big picture house is by far the best option he has a clear cut plan for the future and the means to accomplish them, with that said the NCR for the present is a better option in my opinion because although they are corrupt and spread thin in New Vegas we are only seeing a fraction of a nation and with there numbers comes with enough resources to counter house even if it cost thousands of lives the have the numbers to do it. Than there is always looking at it from the couriers perspective 80% of the locations in the Mojave are NCR to side with anyone besides them cuts you off from most of the people you’ve encountered and helped throughout your journey. That’s why I usually pick the NCR but both the NCR and House are the best options it just comes down to your personal preference and what you put value in.


_________________
"Well, assuming you survive the radiation sickness, the lynch mobs, and the possibility of going feral, one day you'll get old and decrepit, like me." - Raul Alfonso Tejada, 2281

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? 7a996912
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gavin gold

gavin gold

Posts : 127
Join date : 2019-08-19
Age : 24
Location : Costa Rica

Character sheet
Name: Gavin Gold
Faction: House
Level: 50

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta?   Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 10:06 pm

Fair enough, here's what I would say:

Quote :
NCR for the present is a better option in my opinion because although they are corrupt and spread thin in New Vegas we are only seeing a fraction of a nation and with there numbers comes with enough resources to counter house even if it cost thousands of lives the have the numbers to do it.

Ok, but that's not what's presented in the game. NCR is powerful for sure, but look at the events of NV. NCR has spent 7 years in the Mojave and has so far failed to annex it. Think about the massive cost in both lives and money that represents. It's even more significant when you consider how nobody in the Mojave can compete with the NCR's money, numbers or technology (only the BOS and House have better tech, but the NCR outnumbers them greatly).

So why are they failing? Because their political leaders are fanatical imperialists. They are trying to expand everywhere without taking any time to consolidate what they have. That leaves them overextended and vulnerable. They are trying to hold the line at the colorado river, which is kilometers long, even though they are having trouble keeping the fiends from operating 10 m away from the Strip.

Now, pretty much all societies, except perhaps fully militarized autocratic societies, are susceptible to something called "war weariness", again, because wars have a huge human and economic cost. You drag a war for too long without accomplishing anything, people get tired of fighting.

Could the NCR defeat House? Maybe. I'm not sure how well those human soldiers would fare against robots armed with rocket launchers and Gatling lasers - robots who don't get tired, are not afraid of anything, don't suffer morale shocks of any kind, and are pretty much infinite since you can just mass produce them, unlike humans - but I suppose anything is possible. But they'll never get to that point, because the moment the President tries to tell the good citizens of California that for the past 7 years, he has been sending honest citizens into the grinder and heavily taxing those back at home in order to keep the war machine going, and has managed to accomplish absolutely nothing, do you think they'll agree to go to war against New Vegas, especially considering House is offering them friendship? No, he's going to get booted out of office.

BTW, that's exactly what happens. If the NCR looses at Hoover Dam, Oliver and Kimball are publicly disgraced, their careers are ruined, and people in California, war weary and sick of the war hawks, start supporting candidates who advocate for peace and a more modest foreign policy.

Quote :
80% of the locations in the Mojave are NCR

Not really. I mean they control more territory than anyone else, for sure, but 80%? They don't control any population center, with the exception of Primm and Nelson, and that is only is you choose to help them. They have a lot of military posts, for sure, which they will abandon them if they lose at Hoover Dam.

Quote :
to side with anyone besides them cuts you off from most of the people you’ve encountered and helped throughout your journey.


There's nothing in the game preventing you from staying friendly with both House and the NCR. In fact, that is House's entire plan. He wants trade, travel and friendship between Vegas and NCR, he just doesn't want Vegas to be ruled by NCR.

I like the NCR. I don't see any reason not to like them. By all means, help them all you want. It's just they're not a good option to run New Vegas.
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burner9875

burner9875

Posts : 172
Join date : 2018-02-19
Age : 17
Location : Canada

Character sheet
Name: Raul Alfonso Tejada
Faction: Vaquero
Level: 37

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta?   Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 10:26 pm

Alright going off of the information provided in New Vegas and Fallout 2 this is a small sort of the NCR but truly this isn’t the point I was trying to make the have the manpower and resources to forge their own nation which makes them an alternative to house, when I was referring to the places cut off you mentioned only 2 there is actually just off the top of my head the crimson caravan, 188 trading outpost which just those two alone are some of the best merchant slots in the game anyways and I’m guessing your not aware that after you progress with yes man and house (of course the legion) you are marked a terrorist no matter your rep you are shoot on sight which blocks of the locations.
Back to House and the NCR you brought up how Kimball becomes disgraced if they lose the war which is logical and would likely be a good thing because in malt his dealings he has been inept but that also being up another point that makes the NCR a superior option in is the fact is that the NCR can have their president disgraced and/or assassinated and yes it will be a blow on moral but another president will be elected and they’ll move on with house it’s just him if something goes wrong with his tech which has happened he was in a coma for years and he died what happens? His plan dies with him that’s not even bring up the fact that what happens if he goes insane and decided that he’s the only human that deserves to live and he has an army to back himself up that’s the biggest issue I have with house although his ideas seem logical what happens if something happens to him.

But it’s great to see other people’s perspective on this games lore thanks for chyming in +1 from me friend:

Thanks raven it’s hard typing this up on my phone.

_________________
"Well, assuming you survive the radiation sickness, the lynch mobs, and the possibility of going feral, one day you'll get old and decrepit, like me." - Raul Alfonso Tejada, 2281

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? 7a996912


Last edited by burner9875 on Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:24 pm; edited 3 times in total
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gavin gold

gavin gold

Posts : 127
Join date : 2019-08-19
Age : 24
Location : Costa Rica

Character sheet
Name: Gavin Gold
Faction: House
Level: 50

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta?   Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 11:07 pm

Yeah, no problem. I like these arguments lol!

Now:

Quote :
when I was referring to the places cut off you mentioned only 2

We're not disagreeing. NCR controls a lot of locations for sure, I'm just saying 80% seems exaggerated to me. Maybe half.

Quote :
just off the top of my head the crimson caravan, 188 trading outpost which just those two alone are some of the best merchant slots in the game anyways

I prefer trading with the Vendortron but fair enough.

Quote :
I’m guessing your not aware that after you progress with yes man and house (of course the legion) you are marked a terrorist no matter your rep you are shoot on sight which blocks of the locations.

Not really, man. House's questline doesn't conflict with the NCR. I mean, it conflicts in the sense that you won't be able to help the NCR take over Vegas, but the quests don't give you any infamy with the NCR. In fact, in many cases they have common goals. The House Always Wins part VI is about thwarting the assassination attempt on Kimball, and part VIII includes helping the NCR in the defense of Hoover Dam. In fact, House praises you if you keep good relations with the NCR. It's possible, easy in fact, to finish a game idolized by both the Strip and NCR.

Quote :
he was in a coma for years

Ok, but that was due to a nuclear Armageddon. I find the chances of that happening again somewhat slim.

Quote :
what happens?

My guess? You take over Vegas. You are his second in command. Unlike the NCR and the Legion, House actually has an important spot reserved for you. Hopefully, if that happens, he has managed to pass along enough to you that you can continue his work. Worst case scenario, it'd be exactly the same as if you kill him during the game. Except for the fact that you took a chance to build something great. I think that's a chance worth taking.

Quote :
what happens if he goes insane and decided that he’s the only human that deserves to live and he has an army to back himself up

That would be a problem, but taking aside the fact that nothing in the game or the lore suggest that could happen, I suppose you could just take him out. Again, there's always the chance something can go wrong, but I think it's worth taking the chance, rather than betting on the NCR that offers no future in the first place.

cowboy
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burner9875

burner9875

Posts : 172
Join date : 2018-02-19
Age : 17
Location : Canada

Character sheet
Name: Raul Alfonso Tejada
Faction: Vaquero
Level: 37

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta?   Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? EmptySun Sep 15, 2019 11:22 pm

No it’s literally a feature in the game that once you progress in the story you are marked as shoot on sight. https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Don%27t_Tread_on_the_Bear!

And the other theoretical possibilities we’ve brought up are speculation and it comes down to perspective. In a perfect world we’re Houses sanity and life is ensured than yes for sure best option but based on the fact he wants you to exterminate the Brotherhood of Steel and won’t budge on the decision is foreshadowing for issues to come but that’s just my opinion and I understand why he would want them gone their ideological standpoints conflict but still in the past they have saved mandkind, this from a gameplay perspective is the main reason I usually side with the NCR killing a bunker of people simply off of reputation seems wrong to me especially when they aren’t bad people. I can also understand why someone wouldn’t like the NCR they are corrupt spread thin and their decisions take longer because they are a democracy and in the fallout universe democratic decisions lead to an Armageddon. Basically pick your poison each has it’s flaws and it  epitomizes  the masterpiece that Obsidian made.

_________________
"Well, assuming you survive the radiation sickness, the lynch mobs, and the possibility of going feral, one day you'll get old and decrepit, like me." - Raul Alfonso Tejada, 2281

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? 7a996912
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gavin gold

gavin gold

Posts : 127
Join date : 2019-08-19
Age : 24
Location : Costa Rica

Character sheet
Name: Gavin Gold
Faction: House
Level: 50

Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta?   Opinions on Benny and Vulpes Inculta? EmptyMon Sep 16, 2019 12:02 am

Ok, read carefully that link:

Quote :
In the latter two cases, the entire faction will be enemies with the Courier giving a preparation to die

(the latter two cases being siding with the Legion or earning NCR infamy)

Quote :
As noted in the messages, reputation with the NCR will not be lowered if this quest is completed via House or Yes Man (unlike the Legion, the NCR does not consider them hostile). In fact, so long as nothing else to antagonize them is done, it is possible to breach the El Dorado substation and get them to agree to a truce with the Brotherhood of Steel (in Yes Man's path) without dropping reputation below Idolized. They will even still accept help in preventing President Kimball's assassination.

Don't thread on the Bear is a quest designed to warn you that you are about to be locked out of the NCR ending. But there are several ways to fail it and several possible outcomes. Working with the Legion or earning NCR infamy (by killing their soldiers and citizens or nuking their territories, gets you branded as a terrorist. Working with House or Yesman, does not. In the former case you'll get shot on sight and lose access to NCR controlled locations, but in the latter it only makes it impossible get the NCR ending. NCR doesn't treat you any different than before. I know. I side with House every single time and I always maintain friendly relations with the NCR.

Quote :
he wants you to exterminate the Brotherhood of Steel

This one seems to be the point everyone hammers on. Maybe a lot of people like the BOS. I certainly do. But if you pay attention to House's reasoning, everything he says is true. The BOS believes that all technology belong to them and consider it their sacred duty to keep it out of people's hands. They harass travelers who carry so much as a laser rifle. There's no way in hell they won't start a war when they see House ruling Vegas with robots and bringing the advanced technologies sector back to life. Notice that by contrast he's happy to leave the boomers alone, since they present no harm to him or Vegas.

Anyway... This has dragged for a bit too long, but hey, that's the point, isn't it? lol.   cowboy
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