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 Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration

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dantaefetticus

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PostSubject: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:19 pm

I want to have a nice general discussion today about some of the Fallout lore. The lore I wanna discuss with my fellow GUNners is the Vegas/Mojave area before the NCR and Legion's migration. Now, from what I learned from Wiki's, in-game dialogue, and quest mods, the Vegas/Mojave area was a really wild place--and not in the fun sense. I'm talking crazy tribal gangs, cannibals, raiders, and some overall weird shit. I wanna discuss this time period.

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:26 am

Yeah as I understand it it was full on tribal mode, with the 3 Vegas families along with the Great Khans making up the primary tribes in the region. Though the coolest element to Pre NCR and Legion Vegas would have to be the desert rangers in my opinion.

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:36 am

From the top of my head, it seemed like it was as chaotic as pre-legion Arizona.

You have the cannibals(pre-white glove society), opportunists(pre-omertas) and the warrior-like raider gang(pre-chairmen) kidnapping, raiding and killing people in the Mojave. It got worse when some of the California Raiders migrated(Khans, Vipers and Jackals).

IIRC the only reason the local raiders survived the Khans was of because of Mr. House, I could be wrong since it has been awhile since I read the lore.
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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:55 pm

@ahyuser001 You're correct, it is because of Mr House

He rounded them all up with his Securitrons and tamed the tribals to help restore New Vegas

"Under threat of annihilation, the tribes either gave up their wild ways and allowed Mr. house to remake them in the image of Vegas in it's heyday or left."

The Khans came to test their strength against the tribals, but left because Mr House kicked them out. That and the fact NCR was moving in was why they left Vegas.

Mr. House Lore:
 

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:27 pm

It really shows that Mr. house knew how to clean things up. It would've been cool to hear more stories about pre-NCR/Legion New Vegas/Mojave. The shit going on back then must've been really interesting since the area was truly lawless. It was a true Wild West.

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:39 pm

Imagine the game taking place during this time. That'd be interesting if we could see the ncr move in and house start to make his moves.

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:51 pm

It would have been sweet to get a glimpse; pure chaos, cannibalism was rife, every man for himself scavenging for supplies

I'd love to see Vegas before House, and the Pitt before Ashur or the Scourge - I bet they were seriously dangerous places

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:23 am

@Lucianhector Yeah, it would've been cool to see all three Strip Families during their tribal era. people like Mortimer, Nero, and Big Sal must've been savages when they didn't have a leash on their necks.

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:33 am

i would love to see the pure chaos and savage like time before the ncr and legion
id imaging it be something like the mod "dust"
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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:32 am

This thread made me want to read more New Vegas fluff. Unfortunately the only one that I could find was the comic "All Roads".

Could you guys recommend any book/s or comic/s related to Fallout: New Vegas?
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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:48 am

@ahyuser001 I don't know of any official FNV comics, unfortunately. I believe All Roads was an official add-on to New Vegas for promotional reasons.

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:07 am

I don't know. I'd find it surprising if the people of Goodsprings "evolved" from maniac cannibals or immigrants from the ncr.
House chose savage tribals because they were easier to impress, I think. But there were probably other towns like Nipton, Good Springs, and Boulder already there. The existence of other communities would provide an economy for Vegas' casinos without having to wait for the ncr tourists, which he may not have even known much about at first anyway.
It feels unlikely that freeside and westside were lifeless ruins previous to House. There's just so many people in the Mojave (especially before the legion and ncr started blowing up towns) that don't seem to really be all that savage, and yet aren't connected to House's revival plans.
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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:38 am

@dantaefetticus Aww. Too bad. I hope we get something like a Fallout Bible.

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:44 pm

I recall that the Khans were the most powerful faction at that time, hence their giving the most resistance to the arrival first of House, then the NCR.

I imagine the communities in Goodsprings, Primm, Nipton, Novac, Searchlight and Nelson were all fairly standard small Western-style towns before the NCR and Legion arrived.

I assume a lot of life was chaotic in Vegas, but if you could fend for yourself things weren't so bad. You have communities like North Vegas which seem to have been established well before the NCR arrived. Then there's people like Moreno who was eking out a living there.

Also worth recalling that the Brotherhood of Steel controlled HELIOS One at this time. And of course the Boomers were keeping to their isolated, survivalist selves.

It's actually interesting realising how bad the NCR made things for a lot of people. Yes, as Boone said, they "tamed" Vegas (or at least, House did) and made it more liveable. But they destroyed a lot of pre-existing communities (the Khans being one of them, along with whoever refused to assimilate into House's "Utopia") but then you have communities like Goodsprings and Primm, that are thrown into peril when the NCR's NCRCF fell apart with the prison riot.

Then of course there's the fact that Nipton, Nelson and Searchlight were all destroyed in the NCR's war with the Legion (and you can attribute the blame to either/or of those factions). It's kinda like the Jedi War in KOTOR. If you're the guy in the middle getting cut up by a lightsaber, you don't really care whether it's a red one or blue one. So you can understand why some communities would be pissed off at the NCR "civilising" them.

I'd like to see more New Vegas fanfiction if people would be up for doing that. I have something in the works that I need to post at some point.

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:38 am

hi.

the Mojave was a chaotic place filled with tribes like the three families before and the fiends Mr.house was dorment the only semblance of law was vigilante desert rangers which was a separate faction of the NCR at the time the civilisation began only when Mr.house woke up and the city of sin with him.

the boomers the towns are all related to the discovery of hoover dam the caravans and infrastructure like the Mojave outpost came with the NCR occupation of the region all this began 15 before the game events ,the region reached a development spike never heard of all due to Vegas growing economy like Benny said "the game was rigged from the start"

I'm sure that the cannon ending for some dumb reason is the NCR or the independent nv but in my opinion house ending is the best for the Mojave's future he is the only one that cares about it the NCR care only for benefit and not the region or peopol the legion want to destroy it and the independent one produce only chaos.

yeah I know house will kill the brotherhood but they have seen it coming they are fanatical of weapons not useful tech like medicine and food production one the one that kill we have seen it on the veronica quest they even killed the followers I downloaded a modded that made a political solution to save them but after thinking house is right they need to die.

best regards Waving Smiley

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:40 am

The timeline on the wikia gives a little info from gathered sources.

From the most part, it seems like House woke up in the mid 2100's but was content to let the tribals roam around since civilisation hadn't got to the point where he could set in motion his master plans. It wasn't till the NCR arrived, a truly civilised nation, not just a tribe, that House got serious.

Primm, Goodsprings and Novac were small frontier towns, used to governing themselves, and each used to living by the ideal of taking care of their own. Many will express this through dialogue, like Trudy and Easy Pete, and as such, some seem to resent the idea of submitting to the NCR, a system of governance and taxes, where each exists under a government miles away, with no real idea where their money is going. They're content to live in a place where time stands still, and they don't have to acclimate. After all, some of these people have been living that way since as long as anyone can remember. If it worked for their parents, and their parents before them, they're content to let be. The possible ending slides for these towns also reflect this desire for independence, and express displeasure with being taken by the NCR, which signals a death of their way of life.

The desert rangers don't seem to have done much of anything outside of a few mentions of clashes with tribals, sadly, which is why I love the way the Russell mod tried to add some depth to the group. I wish we got more of a look at their war with the Legion considering it was the main reason they joined the NCR. You'd think more folks in the Mojave would talk about them, seeing as how they were kind of the closest thing they had to an organised military. They fought the Legion for years in Arizona supposedly, but we never see anything in game that makes mention of this beside the Unification statue and Kimball's speech at Hoover Dam. It's a shame really. You'd think that Nevadans, particularly considering the independent nature of many of them, would hearken fondly back to the days of the Desert Rangers, before the rule of the NCR...

The Khans were new arrivals in around the 60's/70's and fought the Omertas at some point. They were pretty strong in the Mojave, and were rebuilding there, once again on the fringes of NCR territory. Then House came along and kicked them to the wayside, then the NCR massacred them at Bitter springs, before relocating the survivors to Red Rock. Once again, the Khans find themselves teetering on the edge of extinction, like the Jackals and Vipers, though still able to retain some grasp of what they once were. The Khans are a pretty good example of the crushing might of the NCR/civilisation against tribal identity. The Khans are far from good people, but you have to admire their determination when it comes to resisting the conformity of people like the NCR and House.

Three of the other major tribes in the region are either hired by House to help run his strip (IDR their tribal names...) becoming the Omertas, Chairmen and White Glove Society. One large tribe resists, they are kicked out of Vegas, eventually becoming the Kings of Freeside, beginning to emulate/worship a pre-war figure, called "the king". Some of the other tribes fell apart, becoming the vagrants found around outer vegas, of no use to Mr. House, so simply cast aside, unable to acclimate to the society he was creating, and that brought east by the NCR, they exist in slums, overrun by poverty and disease. The followers of the Apocalypse moved in to help them.

Many turn to drugs. I like to think that many of those that do begin to return to their old ways, as tribal clans in the ruins of outer vegas, but now addled by addiction, they become aggressive in search of their next fix, becoming the fiends of outer vegas, preying on any and all. So drugged out of their minds, they cannot truly recreate their tribal identities, and instead just descend into anarchy, taking out their rage on the NCR, symbols of the civilisation that had destroyed their way of life. The NCR are forced to deal with them in order to protect their troops/citizens, which suits House just fine, keeping the NCR forces close to his city bogged down, and out of his business, while also dealing with the threat with no risk to his securitron forces.

The Brotherhood also turned up at some point a few years back, and I'd love to see what happened with them and the locals. This was the West coast BoS, mid-NCR war, at their most aggressive point, and they apparently operated freely in the region, which generally meant stealing technology from other groups. They supposedly had dealings with the Black Mountain super mutants under Marcus at some point in the past, judging by McNamara's dialogue during the BoS quest-line, so I'd be curious to learn about just what would lead to a usually anti-mutant faction having peaceful dealings with super mutants. Also, the Brotherhood's usual brand of aggressive reclamation when it comes to tech had to of meant they crossed paths, at least once, with the Desert Rangers.

The Jackals and Vipers presence in the Mojave also seems to predate the NCR's, so it's safe to assume they've been operating in the region for about a decade, though unlike the Khans, lacked the means or leadership necessary to regained their former glory, though it is possible they were simply crushed once again by the NCR, though I feel like we'd have heard of it.

There must have been some established settlement in Vegas prior to the NCR's arrival, as the Remnants all found their way there. Cannibal Johnson even has a nickname among the locals, known as some sort of boogeyman by local raiders, and Judah Kreger and Daisy Whitman both seem to be established members of their communities, meaning they haven't moved their overnight. Orion Moreno also seems to have been at his home south of Vegas for years, long before the NCR, a fact he is very eager to point out to the player, who he mistakes for NCR.

Marcus' community at black mountain was also established some time in the past, before the NCR, and was active during the Brotherhood's tenure at Helios, which means it too, existed during this time period.

Another faction worth noting the presence of is the 80's. We only hear of them in honest hearts, but supposedly they are a massive tribe in Northern Nevada who possible raid as far south as the Mojave. Apparently, they make use of motorcycles, and had a number of run in's with the Desert Rangers, whose unification with the NCR, and subsequent end to their patrols of the territory combined with the NCR's lack of efficient patrols gave the 80's free reign across the open territory, raiding many towns and villages.

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:50 am

hey @irorieh

sorry but I got to correct your last paragraph the 80's is the legion or the number of tribes swallowed by the legion it's actually called the 81th tribe ,in honest hearts it's called the 80's like we call the European union due to tribal poor language knowledge and the desert rangers are extinct due to there unification with the ncr so no more vigilante justice dissent mean the creation of the legion in the first place.

best regards Waving Smiley

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:33 am

@Xrad wrote:
hey @irorieh

sorry but I got to correct your last paragraph the 80's is the legion or the number of tribes swallowed by the legion it's actually called the 81th tribe ,in honest hearts it's called the 80's like we call the European union due to tribal poor language knowledge and the desert rangers are extinct due to there unification with the ncr so no more vigilante justice dissent mean the creation of the legion in the first place.

best regards Waving Smiley

Actually the 80's are an independent tribe in North Nevada/northern California. They're named after the territory they roam along the I-80. The 80 in their name is entirely unrelated to the Legion, nor is any affiliation mentioned in the game. Like a lot of stuff in FNV, it was planned for a different game, but incorporated in some way through dialogue or flavour text in official material. The tribals simply know the Legion as the Legion, or the Bull. I doubt many know how many tribes are in it, and the fact it's growing quite rapidly (another several tribes are potentially annexed during the game) it doesn't make sense that this number would remain the same for enough time that it would become established tribal speak.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/80s

I meant the rangers prior to the unification. They operated all across Nevada and battled the Legion. It's all mentioned in the game and the official guide. The unification didn't take place until 2271, in order to better protect Nevada and the West against the Legion. Up until then the Rangers fought the Legion by themselves, albeit ineffectually. It's likely neither they, nor the NCR had any idea just how large the Legion was.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Desert_Rangers

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PostSubject: Re: Lore Talk: Vegas/Mojave Before NCR and Legion Migration   Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:43 am

I wonder how the Desert Rangers interacted with the denizens of the Mojave?

Played this game a lot and other than the NCR, there is no mention of their faction which makes me think that they were either invisible to the tribes, the frontiers and maybe Mr. House or the time difference between the unification and when the courier got shot in the head(10 years according to the wiki) made the people forget they existed.

This makes me kinda disappointed since the wiki states

Quote :
In the early 22nd century, they clashed with a tribal gang leader in the ruins of Las Vegas. They were known to protect people in cities and towns from enemies such as the White Legs, tribals, and super mutants.

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