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 The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.

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gavin gold

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyFri Apr 12, 2024 1:24 pm

You've heard of the Fallout TV show, right?

I was doing my best to ignore it. I knew that being an Amazon TV show it was going to be terrible. But I thought it was going to be terrible because it was going to be some SJW nonsense. I wasn't prepared for what they were going to do.

I've been one of the most positive people when it comes to the Bethesda Fallout games. Sure, 4 isn't as good story wise as NV, but it's a lot of fun and I like it a lot. We have two different studios with different visions and there's no point getting worked up about it.

I always thought it was weird that Todd wanted to pretend as if NV never existed instead of just copying what made it good. Fallout isn't even Todd's creation. But whatever, we can have OG Fallout and Beth Fallout, no big deal.

They decided to nuke the NCR.

The nation that two separate protagonists built? The area that for a while was the entire wasteland? The faction that plays a pivotal role in NV?

Nuked. Destroyed. Bandit-ified. Some 4 years or something after the events of FNV.

Originally it was believed, due to a misunderstanding that they were directly making the game non-canon. Turns out it's worse. They made it irrelevant. All that time fans speculated about what the aftermath would be? There's no aftermath. California gets nuked. Those 3 games are erased. And from the rubble emerges the hobo-core, BoS dominated, perpetually-frozen-in-time world that Todd adores so much.

Oh, and Mr. House. Remember Mr. House? The guy that spent a huge part of his fortune and decades of his life trying to preserve humanity from annihilation? Yeah, he was one of the people BEHIND the nuclear war.

I'm done with Todd and his bs. That miserable, petty, small-dick psychopath.
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TheHermit

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PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyMon Apr 15, 2024 2:09 pm

Who hasn't heard of the show?

Look, I enjoy Fallout: New Vegas as much as the next person. It's by far my favourite Fallout game. Occasionally, I'm even very protective of it, but...
I've watched the TV show in its entirety - several times now. For the most part, I very much enjoyed it. However, it does seem to have some continuity problems that I hope are cleared up in the next season.
Still, I need to push back on a few of the things you've said - play the Devil's advocate for a moment. Particularly where you said "They made it irrelevant".

The story of New Vegas from 2281-2282 is still relevant. It doesn't magically disappear. That path was walked. It happened.
It doesn't diminish the impact or significance of events that occurred during that time period.
And Bethesda consider it canon - they've said as much on multiple occasions.

If you really think about it, how is the destruction of Shady Sands - the first capital of the NCR - any different to real-world historical examples?
There have been countless instances where great civilizations, victories, or achievements have been overshadowed or undone by subsequent events or changes.
The rise and fall of empires, the aftermath of wars, and shifts in political, social, or environmental landscapes have been a reoccurring thing throughout human history.
Progress and accomplishments can appear fragile and fleeting, especially when viewed from a long-term perspective i.e. decades, centuries, etc.

Think of the Fall of Rome, the Industrial Revolution (and its consequences), WW1 and the Treaty of Versailles - they certainly never expected it to, in part, pave the way to WW2...
The fall of Rhodesia - they probably thought they had something good too until it crumbled and became Zimbabwe.
None of those things that happened were irrelevant. We can wax lyrical in hindsight as to whether these moments in history were nothing but pyrrhic victories or futile sacrifices,
but the universe, much like the Fallout universe, speaks to us in irony. The show encapsulates the theme of "war, war never changes".
And I think the show writers did a pretty good job to remind us of that. Change and upheaval are inherent to the universe.
Imagine all of the existing civilisations we know today. Most if not all will not be here in 500-1000 years.
Some are likely to disappear much sooner than that. Names and places will be forgotten and some will make the history books.
Does that make us irrelevant? No. Not unless you take black pill suppositories on the regular.

As for another remark, "Oh, and Mr. House. Remember Mr. House? The guy that spent a huge part of his fortune and decades of his life trying to preserve humanity from annihilation? Yeah, he was one of the people BEHIND the nuclear war."

We don't know that yet. You're speculating. It could be that we unravel more about the discussion between Mr House and the other groups. Perhaps we has a change of heart further down the line.
House saw people as money and he needed people to keep him afloat. He needed the NCR and the families on the Strip.
We don't know that it was Mr House that provided Hank MacLean with the nukes to destroy Shady Sands.
All we know is that Hank is headed to what looks like a ransacked, dilapidated New Vegas 15 years after 2281.
The fact that we saw Mr House and the other CEOs in the Dr. Strangelove-esque "War Room", doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be the one we meet in New Vegas.
It could well be a red herring, It would all depend on what FNV ending is being canonized.
I'm personally not worried about them canonizing a particular ending in NV. I have no problems with Vault-Tec being potentially being responsible for kicking off the Great War.
I don't have any problems with NCR (at least with what little we've seen) being a shadow of what they once were.
It could well be the Yes Man ending that's been canonized and that it's the COURIER Hank is on his way to see. And THAT would be very interesting.

I'm reminded of General Oliver's words to the Courier during the Yes Man ending:

"Do you know what you're doing? Making a nation - like you think you're doing, ain't like chowing down on a pile of Fancy Lad Snack Cakes."
"Don't expect to hold this place for very long, however. The NCR will be back."

And perhaps the NCR did come back - in full force. The Courier's Independent New Vegas vs the NCR. And the Courier is the one that nuked Shady Sands in retaliation.
I really do think Mr House or the Courier could be responsible, but most likely the Courier. Perhaps that explains how MacLean got the nuke in the first place - he went to Vegas to get help.
The Enclave may also exist because of the Courier. If they canonize the Courier helping the Remnants in FNV, have them assist during the 2nd battle of Hoover Dam, and subsequent to that, they recruited new blood into their ranks.

Have a think about it. Share your thoughts. I get your frustrations, but try to calm down.

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Last edited by TheHermit on Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling mistakes)
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MajorLeagueFister

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyMon Apr 15, 2024 4:15 pm

Dude, by your logic, almost every game has been invalidated and discarded by the previous one, because most of them end with the Enclave getting destroyed, and then they always pop back up. The timeline is allowed to advance and new things are allowed to occur, otherwise what's the point. Even Warhammer 40k, the most stagnant franchise in the universe, advances the storyline and tries to keep things moving along to explore new stories and create new drama. They didn't "nuke the NCR". One person nuked one city. That city happened to be the capital, and so the consequences of that are going to be bigger, but it's not like the entire state of California was annihilated for a second time. Player Characters have done more damage in a casual side quest.

I understand Todd has pretty much just ignored New Vegas since it came out, but the only way to reach the conclusion you reached about the TV show is by going out of your way to look for it. You decided this was the case before it came out, and you found any opportunity to prove yourself right.

The entire premise of Fallout, since the beginning, has been on the futility of war, the darkness of human nature, and the inevitability of human failure. Reducing the NCR is an excellent way to take the existing lore and reintroduce that message. We also have ZERO idea what the current state of the NCR is in the show. It might be destroyed, but it's entirely plausible that there are remnants scattered all around, trying to bring things back together (like many factions have done over and over and over again throughout the series).

You're angry because, what, you wanted the ending of New Vegas to be frozen in time, never changing again, so that you could feel validated about what happened (in universe) 18 years prior? Things happen. I'm sure the second season will shed more light on it, as this whole thing was just a mystery that was revealed towards the end of the first season, but it's entirely rational to see this all as the consequences or (pardon the pun) fallout of events in New Vegas. The NCR pushed. The Wasteland pushed back. The wasteland ALWAYS pushes back.

It's also entirely cannon that House decided YEARS before the great war that it was inevitable. It's a perfectly rational action, once you reach that conclusion, to decide that your best outcome can be achieved by controlling how and when that war happens so that you can have better influence over the consequences.
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gavin gold

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyMon Apr 15, 2024 4:20 pm

@TheHermit Man, I appreciate the attempt to make things better but please don't be so naive. Todd didn't nuke the NCR so that they would "return later and rebuild". He nuked it because, in his eyes, the old Fallout has to die. It's not enough for them to pretend it never existed, it needs to be erased because its very existence conflicts with Todd's vision for Fallout, which is a world frozen in time (just like the Elder Scrolls) where no matter how many hundreds of years go by you'll still get the BoS fighting mutants and wastelanders digging through trash.

If you can play and enjoy NV and get invested knowing that it is all pointless because a decade or so later it will all get nuked to rubble and we will we be back to square one, sure go ahead. For me, this is a crime, as serious as what they did to Star Wars.
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TheHermit

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyMon Apr 15, 2024 5:43 pm

gavin gold wrote:
@TheHermit Man, I appreciate the attempt to make things better but please don't be so naive. Todd didn't nuke the NCR so that they would "return later and rebuild". He nuked it because, in his eyes, the old Fallout has to die. It's not enough for them to pretend it never existed, it needs to be erased because its very existence conflicts with Todd's vision for Fallout, which is a world frozen in time (just like the Elder Scrolls) where no matter how many hundreds of years go by you'll still get the BoS fighting mutants and wastelanders digging through trash.
I'm not being naïve, but I'm also choosing not to be overly cynical because it does nothing for me. I could create all theories in my head about Bethesda being salty about this and that and that their decisions seem suspicious or out of spite. Believe me, the thought crossed my mind for a brief moment, but there was so much homage to New Vegas and the old games that I'm going to reserve judgement until season 2. What's more, we don't know for a fact that Bethesda actually feel salty about New Vegas. There's no proof. We'll never know for sure. Fans simply make little stories in their head.

gavin gold wrote:
If you can play and enjoy NV and get invested knowing that it is all pointless because a decade or so later it will all get nuked to rubble and we will we be back to square one, sure go ahead. For me, this is a crime, as serious as what they did to Star Wars.
That's like saying "if you live life, get invested in it, be content in it, achieve things, find meaning KNOWING that it's all pointless because in 7 billion years the sun will explode and in trillions of trillions of trillions of years the universe and all matter and energy will fizzle out, sure go ahead" The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. 1f60f


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gavin gold

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyTue Apr 16, 2024 7:22 am

@TheHermit

Quote :
What's more, we don't know for a fact that Bethesda actually feel salty about New Vegas. There's no proof. We'll never know for sure. Fans simply make little stories in their head.

But we do, man. We do. You can see how they act. You can see the fact that they pretended for years that it never even existed and that every time they do bring it up it's always to damage its legacy. You can see the fact that Obsidian offered to continue to make spinoffs for both Fallout and the Elder Scrolls and Bethesda refused. By the way, when asked about it, Chris Avellone himself said his impression was that Bethesda never liked NV. You can see that they denied royalties to Obsidian over ONE point which almost destroyed the studio. That's all fact. The only thing they haven't done is come out and say that NV is non-canon trash, but the only reason they don't is because of corporate niceties. I'm convinced one day he's just going to do it. 

Quote :
That's like saying "if you live life, get invested in it, be content in it, achieve things, find meaning KNOWING that it's all pointless because in 7 billion years the sun will explode and in trillions of trillions of trillions of years the universe and all matter and energy will fizzle out, sure go ahead"

You'll find that there's a very significant difference between 7 billion years and a couple of years. There's no damn point in thinking about the wasteland and what faction is better because none of them will leave a lasting legacy. You might as well only do "kill everything" runs from now on like you're playing Doom because who the hell cares anyway? Mr. House will never reach the stars. The NCR will never rebuild America. Vegas will just be a ruin like everything else. Nothing remains but Todd's stupid fucking face grinning at you and going: "Oh, you thought you won and built a better world? Enjoy the 5 minutes you get, bozo!"

This is exactly the same they did with Star Wars. There's no point in watching anything Star Wars related anymore because it all just leads to Jake Skywalker. And the only way for me to not have the experience completely ruined is to simply treat Beth like I treat Disney. I just flatly don't accept anything they make as canon. At this point the writers of Fallout Equestria probably care more about the franchise than Todd.
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PresidentPasta

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: It hurts but I still enjoyed it.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyMon Apr 29, 2024 9:17 pm

Seeing my beloved NCR mishandled and underrepresented hurt me a lot, but I think the show and the writing were amazing, and I'm excited for more, and on the bright side its boosted the player count on every fallout game drastically.
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snuffles

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyTue Apr 30, 2024 12:52 am

This fallout shit serious
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professorlicme8

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyWed May 01, 2024 10:32 pm

Least over dramatic toxic fallout fan.
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Marchiavel

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyFri May 03, 2024 12:33 pm

I really like all Fallout games that I played, and I enjoyed the TV show. I'm pretty curious about what the show will unveil. Maybe the NCR won"t exist anymore. Maybe it will exist, but differently. Maybe House is part of the nuclear war, maybe not. Nothing is sure at this time. That may create new factions, new stories that will maybe as enjoyable as the old ones!
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MarcoH

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyFri May 03, 2024 1:19 pm

I just don't understand the fanboyism, and the reasoning that comes with that.
Every fanboy has his/her own logic about the lore and if new games in the genre don't comply with their reasoning and the way they think it should be, Bethesda or someone that challenges their ideas gets hated for it..and it seems more likely with FNV fans..

Why not just enjoy what you get ?
Todd also said that the show is entirely disconnected from the games, a complete different reality.
I don't mind a different storyline as long as it has the Fallout "feel", and it sure does..

i love all the Fallout games, from 1 to 4, and inbetween, and i love the show..i played/modded the games for atleast 50.000 hours, and i would never get it in my head to make myself believe it should be a certain way lorewise or any other wise.. i just enjoy what the devs give me..

Only thing i greatly dislike is bugs that don't get fixed.

We have been fortunate that we have script extenders and some seriously talented programmers that fix Bethesda's bugs, but i do think they should do a better job in playtesting before release.

But the whole Todd destroyed this and that nonsense is just silly, and rather childish.
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SgtSpectre

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptySat May 04, 2024 1:21 pm

Honestly, i do not like the fallout Tv Series. Anything Amazon touches they take far too many liberties with trying to I guess rewrite it for modern audiences.
Shady Sands gets Nuked before fallout New Vegas... why are they not talking about it, there should be something that informs us of it, like "remember shady sands".
Also Mr. House predicted the bombs falling up to the year, month, day... and was only off by 20 hours. If he with all the other big wigs simply planned to nuke the world, did he just forget? and oops everything I wanted to protect other than this tiny strip is gone.
Also making Vault Tec start the war is stupid with the idea of when we destroy all the money, we will have all the money type of logic. Tim Cain, the creator of fallout is on video saying China fired the nukes first.

Todd Howard is an idiot, him and his just works. He should never get a pass at anything, this is the man who releases a horribly buggy game and says its up to the modders to fix his problems. If apple released an Iphone that was as buggy and crashed like his games, and they then stated its up to modders to fix their Iphone....

Also, the fact that Power Armor has video game weaknesses, shoot here = insta-win. That would complete make that armor irrelevant in a fight, especially in a land war in china where you will be taking an insurmountable amount of fire. The weaknesses would be exposed so quickly and spread that the armor is now useless.
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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Not a great introduction...   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyTue May 07, 2024 10:30 am

I share many of the first posts observations, but my paramount beef with Bethesda and Prime after this show is the objective caricature they decided to make of the BoS, Enclave, NCR, and Vault-Tec. Does this show get many things close to the games? I would say yes, aesthetically. It is "16x the detail," but lacks in integrity. The showrunners made clear choices to take away from each faction and fans understanding of the world in general in favor of "plot elements" in the show. 1) connecting vaults goes against everything vault-tec designed the vaults for in the first place, 2) corporations being directly responsible for the bombs goes against the themes of f1, 2 , tactics, 3, NV, and 4, 3) The BoS would not tolerate any single "BoS" character in the show, 4) Terrible first impression of the NCF for normies, no matter whatever monday morning quarterbacking is made for the show, normies first impression of the NCR is Moldaver?? If showrunners were at all interested in deconstructing fo themes and the NCR and BoS in particular, why jot have characters and elements like Boone and the Outcasts?? The Enclave would be on top in of that cold fusion core, no ifs ands or buts.
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fgjc

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyTue May 07, 2024 11:42 am

Some grade a schizophrenia

i thought the show was fine, it was a fun watch

honestly as much as i love fallout, i realize that i'm not beholden about where the franchise will go
Instead i'll find look for new aspects about to enjoy, if there are any for me to enjoy, and to me a faction like the ncr losing it's steam isn't unreasonable since it was very corrupt and it made many enemies.

Also regarding bethesda or todd hating new vegas i'll say this.
You do not know anything about what happened between the studios since you weren't there, you won't know whether todd liked the game or not, you won't know whether the team behind fnv were fine about not getting that bonus, you don't know anything about what happened and you will never know. If you say you do, you don't, go take your meds and stop listening to crackpot theories and rumours on the internet. The information is already really shoddy and it will never be clear what happened internally.
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gavin gold

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyTue May 07, 2024 4:00 pm

"bUt i tHoUgHt tHe sHoW wAs gOoD!"

Based on what?

Seriously.

Anybody who says it was good. Please. Explain.

What exactly was so good about it?

It's woke as all hell.

It literally glorifies communism.

It deletes New Vegas.

It fucks up the lore yet again.

More importantly, what does it bring to the table? How does it expand on the Fallout story?

Or what? Is it now so normalized to just turn off your brain and mindlessly consume slop that this is what you guys are willing to accept?

Mind you, I'm not talking about the acting or the set pieces or the art or anything like that. Obviously those guys work hard and they do an excellent job.

But all the finished product does is drag the franchise through the mud.
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Luke Priefer

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyThu May 09, 2024 2:43 pm

[quote="gavin gold"]"bUt i tHoUgHt tHe sHoW wAs gOoD!"

Based on what?

Seriously.

Anybody who says it was good. Please. Explain.

What exactly was so good about it?

It's woke as all hell.

It literally glorifies communism.

It deletes New Vegas.

It fucks up the lore yet again.

More importantly, what does it bring to the table? How does it expand on the Fallout story?

Or what? Is it now so normalized to just turn off your brain and mindlessly consume slop that this is what you guys are willing to accept?

Mind you, I'm not talking about the acting or the set pieces or the art or anything like that. Obviously those guys work hard and they do an excellent job.

But all the finished product does is drag the franchise through the mud.[/quote


i can understand and agree with the part about communism don't think it deletes new Vegas yes, the ncr not being in their capitol that much is discouraging. i thought they went a tad overboard with all the flashbacks we dint know for sure that mr haus didn't try and stop their plans for annihilation. we got to see a live action prydwen and power armor perhaps of there is enough outcry we can convince them to feature more of the enclave and true ncr in the next season,
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hunter1828

hunter1828

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyMon May 13, 2024 2:50 pm

gavin gold wrote:
You've heard of the Fallout TV show, right?

I was doing my best to ignore it. I knew that being an Amazon TV show it was going to be terrible. But I thought it was going to be terrible because it was going to be some SJW nonsense. I wasn't prepared for what they were going to do.

...

I'm done with Todd and his bs. That miserable, petty, small-dick psychopath.

The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. 1320529223886
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Seminole Gamer

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyWed May 15, 2024 8:34 pm

Well I was gonna engage with this post until I read the responses to anyone who doesn't agree with the original post. Already spent too much energy just reading all this. heh

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Shonabish!
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SunRonin

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptyThu May 16, 2024 9:19 pm

Luke Priefer wrote:
gavin gold wrote:
"bUt i tHoUgHt tHe sHoW wAs gOoD!"

Based on what?

Seriously.

Anybody who says it was good. Please. Explain.

What exactly was so good about it?

It's woke as all hell.

It literally glorifies communism.

It deletes New Vegas.

It fucks up the lore yet again.

More importantly, what does it bring to the table? How does it expand on the Fallout story?

Or what? Is it now so normalized to just turn off your brain and mindlessly consume slop that this is what you guys are willing to accept?

Mind you, I'm not talking about the acting or the set pieces or the art or anything like that. Obviously those guys work hard and they do an excellent job.

But all the finished product does is drag the franchise through the mud.[/quote


i can understand and agree with the part about communism don't think it deletes new Vegas yes, the ncr not being in their capitol that much is discouraging. i thought they went a tad overboard with all the flashbacks we dint know for sure that mr haus didn't try and stop their plans for annihilation. we got to see a live action prydwen and power armor perhaps of there is enough outcry we can convince them to feature more of the enclave and true ncr in the next season,

too soon to talk about it yet i think in my personal opinion they can start to fix any plot holes or misinformation on certain things later on in future seasons if they get approved of course or its a hit or miss honestly man i always take everything with a grain of salt when it comes to live action movies be it from anime or video games. we'll see though.
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Accelerator

Accelerator

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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. EmptySat May 18, 2024 1:16 am

It's just a process at this point, they are making these decisions set in stone and broadly (In your face) for future game titles. Mostly vague for a more neutral interpretation like a middle ground for every possible ending for New Vegas. From what I saw, Ulysses was correct and the tunnelers caught House Vegas off guard and it fell due to their furiosity.
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The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd.   The Fallout TV show destroyed NV. I'm done with Todd. Empty

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