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 Dragons and deathclaws and oh my

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Sirdanest

Sirdanest

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PostSubject: Dragons and deathclaws and oh my   Dragons and deathclaws and oh my EmptySun Sep 22, 2019 8:40 pm

Other than guesswork and personal opinions, is there any way at all to extrapolate how powerful a strong dragon would be in New Vegas, or how powerful deathclaws would be in Skyrim?
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Tribal Raven

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PostSubject: Re: Dragons and deathclaws and oh my   Dragons and deathclaws and oh my EmptySun Sep 22, 2019 8:58 pm

Well, I think Deathclaws would equate to Werecrocodiles in my head so there's a decent equivalent?

As for Dragons, I think they'd do little damage because:

A. All of the shit they could burn up minus some random shanty towns is already destroyed
B. If an arrow can kill a dragon, Mr. NCR Ranger can sure put one down with Anti-Material Rifle

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Sirdanest

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PostSubject: Re: Dragons and deathclaws and oh my   Dragons and deathclaws and oh my EmptySun Sep 22, 2019 9:19 pm

Ok so a chinese officer's sword in fallout 4 does a base damage of 16, and the normal deathclaws start at 510 hp. With no damage-boosting perks and the like, and for some reason not counting armor, that's over 30 strikes. Far more if armor is counted, surely.

A basic dragon clocks in at 905 hp. A steel sword has a base damage of only 8. Again, wielded by someone with no damage bonus but strangely able to ignore defenses if any, that's ...well over a hundred strikes, even magically penetrating any defenses the dragon has. That's the weakest dragon type.

I don't know what we can glean from that, other than that if a dragon is dying easily to an arrow, it's not because they're weak, it's because they're fighting Chuck Norris' fantasy-world equivalent.

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Tekmon_Xonic

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PostSubject: Re: Dragons and deathclaws and oh my   Dragons and deathclaws and oh my EmptyMon Sep 23, 2019 12:40 am

@ Sirdanest (Original Post)

A Dragon in the world of Fallout would be a massive threat to wastelanders. Especially for settlements or towns with no anti-air defenses. Most wastelands threats are ground based, and very few are armed with ordinances like vertibirds or artillery. The Brotherhood Of Steel, Enclave Remnants, and most notably the Boomers, would be the most equipped to deal with a Dragon, let alone a flock of Dragons. Dragons also wield magic, which is native to their home world. Their shouts can cause the weather to change, breathe elemental magic, and cause all sorts of chaos. A dead dragon however would probably yield some of the best resources available in the wasteland. Their bones and hides would be a tribal's wet dream.

Deathclaws in the world of The Elder Scrolls on the other hand, would be werewolves on steroids. A deathclaw's claws are much longer and sharper than werewolves, giving them a massive range advantage over werewolves. So getting close to a deathclaw without proper armor or weapons would be suicide. Deathclaws are also really really tough, and would most likely have high resistances to magic and physical damage. Though I do wonder though, what if a conjurer gained the power to summon deathclaws, that would be a force to be reckoned with! Along with that, what kind of souls would they yield if trapped them in a soul gem?
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Sirdanest

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PostSubject: Re: Dragons and deathclaws and oh my   Dragons and deathclaws and oh my EmptyMon Sep 23, 2019 11:07 am

If the intelligent deathclaws from fallout 2 had survived and somehow ended up in Skyrim, could they have learned magic, potentially?  Now there is something scary.  Could Vampirism or Lycanthropy affect deathclaws or super mutants?  I mean, lycanthropy can even affect an argonian.  

What would an FEV boost do to a dragon? Would a sorcerous elf robobrain still be able to do magic?


Are dwemer automotons really genuinely technological robots? A Fallout technician would be able to answer that. Could there be dwemer robobrains if the two universes had access to each other?

I am not sure I want to see an intelligent mother deathclaw with major defensive magic boosting her already natural strong armor, fighting a huge were-wolf super mutant behemoth.

Who am I kidding, I actually really do want to see how all that would go down.

And dragons, despite how they usually act like suicidally brave killbots in skyrim, are technically intelligent beings capable of speech and all that.  I can't help but think that Alduin would be a bigger threat in the Mojave as an intelligent villain who recognized the value and threat of the fatman, as opposed to just a mindless, auto-attacking scaly vertibird.    

I've been trying to extrapolate from the data where certain weapons from each game would lie in relation to each other.  Mundane blades exist in both games so it seems like it shouldn't be completely impossible to figure out roughly how to translate the weapon stats from one game to the other.  And once we have that rough conversion formula derived from comparing mundane blades in each game, we might be able to extend it further and be able to make a rough calculation of power armor vs daedric armor.  And then the real fun begins and we wouldn't just be guessing anymore.



Yeah, I know, I'm really overthinking this.
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Tekmon_Xonic

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PostSubject: Re: Dragons and deathclaws and oh my   Dragons and deathclaws and oh my EmptyMon Sep 23, 2019 11:54 pm

@ Sirdanest

You know, eventually OpenMW is going to support games other than Morrowind, so I think one day we will be able to answer the question of what will become of what if we could combine games like Fallout and The Elder Scrolls in OpenMW. That would be a day we could all rejoice, and sit behind our glowing monitors, in our happy places, creating battles across the realms. Heck, we can kind of do that already with GMOD, you know?
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Sirdanest

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PostSubject: Re: Dragons and deathclaws and oh my   Dragons and deathclaws and oh my EmptyWed Sep 25, 2019 11:36 am

OpenNewVegas would be great... anything that makes it more stable and fixes the mod limit bug. Although I wonder if all the modders would convert their mods.
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Tekmon_Xonic

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PostSubject: Re: Dragons and deathclaws and oh my   Dragons and deathclaws and oh my EmptyWed Sep 25, 2019 8:31 pm

@ Sirdanest

Conversions wouldn't be necessary, many morrowind mods are already compatible with OpenMW, since it was designed to be that way in the first place. For Open New Vegas, it would just be a matter of what mods would be compatible when. But I will admit, where things would get most interesting, is if cross compatibility would be a thing. Would we be able to take dragons from Skyrim in put them in Fallout? Would we take the Deathclaws from Fallout and put them in Skyrim? I certainly hope that's what they're aiming for. Smile
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Sirdanest

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PostSubject: Re: Dragons and deathclaws and oh my   Dragons and deathclaws and oh my EmptyThu Sep 26, 2019 2:59 pm

I can't find anything about open-fallout. Is it a real project?

The morrowind mods that don't require scripting are apparently often compatible with openmorrowind but the more complex ones aren't... so we might lose a lot of mods with a theoretical open new vegas.

Although maybe there would be some kind of miracle and all the big new vegas modders will return and make compatible versions of their mods as necessary. One can hope.

But the point of my original post is that all anyone can do is guesswork (as of now.)
We have no idea what to set the hps, damage, etc of the deathclaws in skryim to, or how strong to make the dragon in fallout 4. Just guesswork. And everyone's guesswork is different... some people say dragons are really weak, and I say they're awesomely powerful, like, eat deathclaw for breakfast powerful... all we have is guesswork and personal preference.
the systems aren't identical. We don't have a translation formula, that will tell us, say, "5 hp in Skyrim is the equivalent of 10 hp in fallout 4" or something like that. I've been looking into it, but it's going ot be hard to make a translation formula between fallout 4 and skyrim... hard because Bethesda doesn't even really give a shit and the systems and damage and effectiveness of armor and weapons changes with each sequel.

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Tekmon_Xonic

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PostSubject: Re: Dragons and deathclaws and oh my   Dragons and deathclaws and oh my EmptyFri Sep 27, 2019 12:01 am

@ Sirdanest

I believe that this video on YouTube can give you some more details on signs of things to come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLuTCbTNvmk

There are several links in the description of this video that will give you even more information too. So feel free to take a look.

While more complex scripts might not work currently in OpenMW, you've got to remember that it is still in development, and scripts that might not work in current builds, will work in future builds. The entire goal of OpenMW is to make vanilla Morrowind 100% compatible with OpenMW, and eventually, allowing people to make their own games with the engine. Including features such as making things unhardcoded, so that content creators will have the most freedom when making new games from scratch.

But yeah you're right, it is pretty much guess work. Most of The Elder Scrolls weapons do a lot less damage than some of the more powerful Fallout weapons. So it would take a lot of trial and error to find the correct values. Every game's mechanics are different. The same is true for creatures and their respective health and damage values. But as I said, it could all change one day. cheers
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