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 Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*

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MrEggs0925

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PostSubject: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:39 pm

A new post on the Fallout Instagram page helps to describe the new lore implemented by Bethesda.

The posts caption reads: November 2077, a month after the Great War, army Captain Roger Maxson arrived with survivors at the Californian bunker of Lost Hills. There he formed the Brotherhood of Steel, who used a functioning satellite to extend their reach across America… all the way to Appalachia.

By this logic, it seems the Brotherhood somehow reactivated a sort of Satellite and most likely contacted survivors on the East Coast convincing them to start a chapter.

The survivors must have gathered military equipment like barriers, armor, and weapons from the surrounding areas as transporting equipment from the West Coast Chapter would have been impossible. This makes sense as stuff like the BOS Uniform is just renamed Recon Armor, while all the other equipment is just re-stenciled pre-war equipment.

Do you guys think this validates the BOS presence? Or do you think its just lazy writing?

Edit: Link if anyone wants to check it out https://www.instagram.com/p/BpC6pIaBf8x/?taken-by=fallout


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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:07 pm

Bullshit, i say, personally i'm getting sick of seeing the brotherhood in every game(as a main faction mostly) I just feel like Beth treats them like: "Wooooo yaaaay guys come to play fallout, you see, it has many funny stuff to shoot at, it has supermutants, caps and of course the knights in shining armor, the brotherhood of steel! that makes it fallout right? of course it does!  cheers " and it's so fucking dumb.

It feels like the BoS and many things more are just there for the sake of being "iconic" without a solid reason that adds up and reinforces previous establishd lore, this only shows their lack of creativity, it was all over 3 even, why not create a new faction instead? They already showed us how much of a shit they give about lore with 4, it's really laughable how they even retcon their own lore.

But yeah it wasn't a surprise to me, i even said it some months back here in a post about hype for this "Fallout", you know, Bethesda being Bethesda, retconing the shit outta their games.

It's a spinoff online multiplayer, sure, they could even say that this title isn't cannon with the timeline and everyone would settle down and sigh in relief, but their ego is so inflated that i'm willing to believe that they will go on with this crap, that being said, i can't feel relief knowing that if this was a main entry it wouldn't be any better, hell there shouldn't even be supermutants there lmfao.

And yet, there's people defending them..


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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:20 pm

@ElMaldito Yeah, I'm kind of right there with you. I was surprised when I heard about the Brotherhood making a Return. Even more surprised when I heard about Super Mutants enemies and traders.

Really would have been nice to see Bethesda make a new faction instead of reusing the same faction in every single Fallout game. Though I suspect they most likely did this to help sell BOS skins or whatnot in their new shop.
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:18 pm

I feel that this could have worked if they were not named or dressed as the BOS. You could have holotapes or communication between the BOS and the survivors of Appalachia with make-shift military barracks/barricades/supply depots that were left by these people after they died/left the area.

It would definitely become an interesting area to explore to find out how much of an influence the founder of the BOS had to these people seeing as he is the type that would just offer a helping hand to anyone who is in need of it but they should not be BOS proper just an affiliate.

There is still hope I feel that they could fix this bit of lore but I doubt they would change this since they are marketing this as a multiplayer/mmo experience, not an RPG.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:43 pm

@ahyuser001 Yeah I think people would have found that as a cool kind of connection. Instead just like everything Bethesda has done recently has received mixed reactions. Can't say for how of that hate is validated.

The thing with the BOS is that at this point they were very isolationist and somewhat like the chapter we see in the Mojave with leaders needing to petition for permission just to explore locations near them. That and they were reluctant to help the Vault Dweller giving him/her a near impossible task to complete.

I feel like Bethesda is just being lazy. Its a spin off but the BOS has been in (I believe) every game. They said this game is a test, but this test looks to really mess up the lore.
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:17 pm

@MrEggs0925 I feel that this game doesn't know what it is. It acts like it is an mmorpg but it is not an rpg game but a sandbox shooter/survival that has pvp elements that can be ignored.

Fallout 76 is confusing sometimes but I guess that really shows that they do not know what to do with this game and just let what ever community this will create dictate its growth which is indeed lazy of the developers.

Like there is no direction with this game. They simply added multiplayer to Fallout 4, tried to do what Rust did but didn't because they did not want this to be griefy.

If they create content like how World of Warcraft did theirs then I will probably buy this game since they stated that the game will receive free updates but other than that Fallout 76 really looks lonely and boring.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:47 am

I'll preface this by reminding everyone, myself included, that this is an mmo, created as a cash grab, designed to just be playable. Whatever lore is established in this game will likely wind up getting swept under the rug of Fallout semi canon.

Bethesda putting the BoS in this game is as stupid, needless and lazy as putting the Supermutants in. Bethesda putting the BoS in wearing uniforms that didn't come into existence until 2280s... that's just ridiculously lazy, and lore breaking. My real biggest issue is this fear Bethesda seems to have that unless they hamfist every little fallout cliche in that they can, the games just won't be successful. But here's the reality, the Brotherhood aren't an interesting faction. They just... aren't.

They're a one note, boring bunch of tech zealots that are obsessed with hoarding knowledge. I started the franchise loving the Brotherhood, and I feel like, as I've matured through my experiences in the game, my understanding of the group has changed. They're a military order with no depth. No basis or development. If anything, the best iteration of the Brotherhood came in Fallout 4, because it finally gave them some depth, and addressed their core issues on a larger scale than New Vegas. The Brotherhood, as Ulysses said, are a dead end. The group has no future. Not like the NCR, or the Commonwealth Minutemen, who focus on building infrastructure and society. The Brotherhood's goal is horde tech, wipe out mutants.

What then?

My point here is, building these stories around the Brotherhood is just... boring. They lack the depth, and honestly, Fallout 4 covered them more than enough. We don't need them in this game. Fallout isn't dependent on the Brotherhood's involvement. The two most beloved and thematically acclaimed games in the series, Fallout 2 and New Vegas, barely feature the Brotherhood, and instead just have them involved as side factions. Whereas the least beloved fallout games in term of story, Tactics, 3 and... eugh... Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel... sorry, just threw up in mouth a little... focus entirely on the brotherhood as the main driving force for the narrative, and they're bemoaned, rightfully so, as being one note stories with little derivation from this course of chivalry and dumb shoot the big monster railroading.

In the words of Robert House: "They're a terrorist group, basically. Militant, quasi-religious fanatics obsessed with hoarding Pre-War technology. Not all technology, mind you." and "Don't tell me that you've fallen for the stories of noble paladins on crusade, preserving mankind's technology in a benighted age? Dross!"

The point is that the Brotherhood's campaign to preserve technology and save the world is founded on a lie. It's propaganda to make themselves appear as the most civilised group among tribals. The whole idea that the Brotherhood is recruiting via satellite is a weak and flimsy ploy to just have them inserted in, and this idea that they recruited anyone at that point is ridiculous.

I always assumed the Brotherhood of Steel was founded by the descendants of Maxson's original group, at least one generation later, who venerated their forefathers, and the hero Captain Maxson, not by Maxson himself. It makes him go from a heroic and ultimately misunderstood figure to an egotistical LARPer. I mean, this bunker of what we can assume are hardened veterans of the resource wars just for some reason decided to start playing dress up? It makes 0 sense. Apologists will get salty about that, but it's true. 0 sense. I mean, what, did they tell those guys how to draw the special brotherhood logo over the radio too? I mean... wtf? Do they even realise how ridiculously pathetic that sounds? "Okay guys, you wanna be in the Brotherhood yeah? Make sure you put the Brotherhood logo nice and big on the front of your power armour. Yeah, that's right. A big sword with wings!" And why. WHY. Would another group of people on the East coast follow their direction? There's no benefit. For all they'd have known, these were some kids with a radio taking the piss out of them. 0. Sense. Also, if the Brotherhood has these kind of resources or a team in the East, why'd scribe Rothchild not mention them in Fallout 3, when you ask about other brotherhood Chapters in the East? It's almost like this whole thing is poorly planned, eh?

But, yeah, there's a satellite now. So the Brotherhood can pop up in every game from now on!

Yay...

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:25 am

I haven't seen this much messy retcon since WoW, and we all know what a wonderfully cohesive storyline the Warcraft lore is now Joking aside it isn't as bad as WoW, yet.

Honestly though, I understand that this is an MMO cash grab, the days of quality story driven player choices in RPG's are few and far between, now reign the days of easy to use catch names and big seller titles to push out a mediocre game idea at best.

But to go so far as to twist pretty well established lore even if it get's pushed aside later (if it actually does) is just messy. It's happened before and i fear will happen here. So the BoS have a convenient satellite now? Talk about your poor handling of story telling imo. When you start to twist the laws of your own world things just aren't as enjoyable if at any point Bethesda might say "nah, we want more $$ so we need to fit such a huge name faction in to draw the crowd." Why? Why not just see the beginnings of the BoS? Or a new faction entirely? What's so bad about all of that, don't set it as a "prequel" if there's nothing prequel about it lol.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:06 pm

@ahyuser001 There are free updates for Fallout 76 planned. I believe it has something to do with Vaults. The developers have confirmed in an interview that there are other Vaults, like Vault 63 for example. But they said you won't be able to enter them at launch.

I suspect this is where at least some post-launch content will emerge from. Whether it be new enemies, factions, or maybe even human NPC's is unknown.

@IRORIEH Looking at the game, it would probably be for the best if it's not considered canon. BoS, Enclave, Super Mutants, and who knows what else is just a little much.

I also have to agree with you on the lore. This open arms approach were now hearing about sounds nothing like the Black Isles BoS we know. What's even more surprising is that we hear nothing about this Chapter or Brotherhood presence from Elder Lyons. It's obvious they just threw them in there for filler, to attract fans, or just to sell BoS themed items in their new in-game store, as well as their online store.

@MWguitarist Yeah, its unfortunate Fallout has fallen to this level. Hopefully, the next Fallout or even the next Elder Scrolls will redeem Bethesda.

I don't want to get ahead of myself and claim that they've insulted Black Isles or thrown aside established lore until I've seen the full story for myself though. But if this satellite they found turns out to be some crap teleporter or wack upper orbit transit system I'm going to be pretty disappointed.
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:27 pm

I'm tired of seeing always BoS there's more unique and more interesting factions out there, i knew from start that game would be trash and money grabber, for me fallout died on new vegas, it's a shame how this great series ended.
Fallout 76 from my perspective is Rust but with better graphics and set on another world.
Anyway i think this another lazy writing from this disastrous company. (sorry for my english)

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:46 pm

@scrab20 Yeah, their explanation is lousy for as to why the BoS is present. Though I doubt this is the end of Bethesda, especially with so many fans and other series to make money from.


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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:09 am

Makes sense, honestly.

You're telling me Maxson's company was the only non-enclave military personnel to survive the war? What about the other tens of thousands of servicemen across the country? They just... Died? All of them? I think this fixes that plot hole quite nicely in all honesty.

Maxson puts out a rallying call to surviving remnants of the US military, gives them a common cause and a goal to reach. I still don't like how the Brotherhood are featured *AGAIN*, but the reason, while unnecessary, isn't written terribly at all.

All said and done, I still have oodles of faith in Bethesda.
Just because one flop of a writer (EMIL *COUGH*) chokes big time on Fallout 4 doesn't mean there aren't talented, dedicated people working at the company that won't take the criticisms of the community and try to step up the company's game next time.
76 is honestly something I don't count on that record, It's quite obviously it's own thing.
If Fallout 5 is of the same quality as Fallout 4? Then I'll start finding credence in some of these...
"UGH, IT'S GARBAGE. NOT AN RPG, OBSIDIAN IS MY DADDY. SPANK ME OBSIDIAN." posts.

But until then, Far Harbor alone shows (To me) that hope is far from lost.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:33 am

Their explanation of why the BoS exists there shows that it's because of money.

They need the BoS to be there to be the iconic face of Fallout cause the newcomers of the series would know them from the covers, Shelter, and Fo3 & 4.

It's a very weak lame excuse to shoehorn them into what little story exists in the game, I'm losing more and more faith in Bethesda as they keep messing with Fallout's lore with such abandon.
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:52 am

@IIHawkerII Their current explanation as to why the Bos is present is in my opinion extremely lousy.

After the War, most of the known military deserted or tried to retain control, which ultimately failed. The BoS we know is extremely isolationist, not an open membership boy scouts. The idea that the BoS would trust some random voices from halfway across the country is in itself stretching it. IRORIEH also makes some really good points as to why the BOS presence is a can of worms.

But really taking a step back and looking at the whole of Fallout 76 its obvious everything Fallout was crammed in for a cool multiplayer game and I believe it may be in their best interest to consider this game non-cannon. But as you said Far Harbour was impressive, and maybe, just maybe Fallout 76 will be as well. We will all see when the BETA finally releases.

@Obdulio I got to agree with you, it pretty lousy writing. I believe the BOS have appeared in every single Fallout game to date. Now their appearing in places they shouldn't even be. A whole group of BoS never talked about by any of the other BoS Chapters, not even Lyons chapter who is legit the next state over. I think Fallout 76 will be enjoyable from a gameplay perspective but as a recognized Fallout game counted towards the lore, not so much.
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout 76 Bethesda's New BoS Lore *Poss. Spoilers*   Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:32 pm

@IIHawkerII wrote:
Makes sense, honestly.

You're telling me Maxson's company was the only non-enclave military personnel to survive the war? What about the other tens of thousands of servicemen across the country? They just... Died? All of them? I think this fixes that plot hole quite nicely in all honesty.

Maxson puts out a rallying call to surviving remnants of the US military, gives them a common cause and a goal to reach. I still don't like how the Brotherhood are featured *AGAIN*, but the reason, while unnecessary, isn't written terribly at all.

All said and done, I still have oodles of faith in Bethesda.
Just because one flop of a writer (EMIL *COUGH*) chokes big time on Fallout 4 doesn't mean there aren't talented, dedicated people working at the company that won't take the criticisms of the community and try to step up the company's game next time.
76 is honestly something I don't count on that record, It's quite obviously it's own thing.
If Fallout 5 is of the same quality as Fallout 4? Then I'll start finding credence in some of these...
"UGH, IT'S GARBAGE. NOT AN RPG, OBSIDIAN IS MY DADDY. SPANK ME OBSIDIAN." posts.

But until then, Far Harbor alone shows (To me) that hope is far from lost.

I respect the fact that you're the only person in a thread full of people bashing the idea to defend it, but I feel like you're sort of missing out on the main issue here.

The idea of the Brotehrhood having a satellite like this brings with it the implication that the Brotherhood have been recruiting military holdouts across the wasteland for nearly 200 years, which simply doesn't add up with any of the developed canon. There is barely any knowledge of the Brotherhood in California by 2160s, with only a handful of caravaners having a cursory knowledge of them. They were basically holed up in their bunker until the 2130s, and still remained pretty reclusive even then. If they were so widespread among military communications post war, we'd expect to find logs, and data in installations referencing communications between post war troop remnants and a group calling itself the Brotherhood of Steel.

There's one solitary quote that suggests this in any way occurred. A quote from Elder Lyons references a well known phrase from the elder of the Montanna Chapter. So maybe the Brotherhood does have a few remote postings across the wastes, but it seems far more plausible that they were established after the events of Fallout 1.

I'm not saying Bethesda should be beholden to 20 year old lore, but they should at least work within the constraints. Just saying they recruit by satellite is flimsy, as once again there's no reason for any other remnant group to throw their lot in with the Brotherhood when they can neither see or benefit from it.

Now, would it have been cool if there were a post war remnant that had received communications from a group claiming to be the remnants of the US army calling itself the Brotherhood of Steel? Yes. But it doesn't mean they have to join them! It could have just been a little nod to those paying attention. Why this group would be wearing Brotherhood gear from the 2280s, decorating their power armour in Brotherhood logos and even referring to themselves as the Brotherhood of Steel still makes no sense, other than just having the Brotherhood in game for the sake of it. Just like Super Mutants. It's a lazy excuse to reuse assets, and it adds nothing to the game, which should be about exploring a fallout world like we've never seen before.

Theoretically, if the Brotherhood possess this kind of tech, and they've recruited dozens of separate military holdouts, well then that changes everything for them. They're no longer the small but advanced faction they've always been. They're a large, albeit widely spread organisation with holdings across North America. Theoretically they can now appear wherever and whenever Bethesda want, which should be concerning to anyone who wants to see fresh ideas in the Fallout universe.

Remember in the Pitt, when you speak to Midea, and she mentions Troggs to you for the first time and you can respond by asking if Troggs are Super Mutants and she's like "What the hell is a Super Mutant?"

That kind of World building is what makes RPGs work. It might seem minor, but it's important as hell.

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