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 Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?

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nervo82

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:10 pm

i kinda like the settlement system but i really cared for it only during my first run. after that i've barely put the minimum effort...until sim settlements came out! what a mod! and with the rise of commonwealth it's just perfect!
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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:37 am

@zodiac213 wrote:
... While yes,it was fun to build them,it ultimately didn't amount to much because of the fact that there were no unique npc's that would settle in,making that settlement actually feel alive and have character.


There definitely were a few "unique" NPC's, but a lot of them you could only achieve after finding them randomly on the road. And god forbid you find one before you can actually recruit them after their dumb required settlement size limit, lest they get stuck in the post load room when you walk away.



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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:33 am

@myfish37 wrote:
I've watched a lot of videos on Fallout 4, and one common thread I've noticed is that there are many people that really enjoy the settlement system and see it as a good addition to the series.  I have a different opinion and wanted to see what this community thought on the whole of the settlement system in Fallout 4.  

The next section of the post will be my contentions with the settlement system, If any of these points are wrong then please point them out as I don't wish to mislead anyone or hold a problem with a game that is factually false.  With that out of the way:

1)  The addition of the settlement system negatively impacted DLC for Fallout 4.  Comparing the DLC for Fallout 4 to the DLC of Fallout 3 or New Vegas is almost a not comparable.  Fallout 4 has 2 DLC that can hold a candle to that of the old Fallout Games being Nuka World and Far Harbor, and in my opinion, these are both stellar additions to Fallout 4 they add new parts of the world to explore, new weapons enemies and stories for the Player to pursue.  I'd put Automatron on the same par as Broken Steel for Fallout 3 and above GRA for New Vegas.  But the others in my opinions don't share this level of quality.  Wasteland Workshop and Contraption Workshop are both subpar excuses for DLC and Vault 81 is a mixed bag.  

2) Bethesda adding settlement locations gave them an excuse to put less content in the game world.  If you look up towns in Fallout 4 5 towns are listed in the base game with another 5 added in DLC.  This is compared to the 10 in the base game of fallout new vegas and the 13 in the base game of Fallout 3 (Though these lists aren't 100% accurate they are still representative of the difference in friendly settlements the games provide.)  This is because Bethesda planned on the player creating their own friendly settlements, which can work on paper, however usually the most interesting parts of the settlements found in these games are the people inside them and the generic settler can't really compare to that.  

3) This is the most point is mostly based on personal preference but I dislike how the settlements can in no way advance on their own and you have to micromanage everything the settlement does and how it progresses,  I am completely aware that many people prefer this while people like me just use Sim settlements which does make this somewhat of a moot point, however, I felt it should be listed.  

So What do you think? Am I just being silly?  Do I not know what I'm talking about? I'd love to hear what you think of the settlement systems and possibly be converted to a pro-settlement mindset.

Yes, the settlement system introduction is a nice idea... executed poorly. No advancement as you are doing your thing. Weak generic characters. Less actual fully fleshed out characters and towns and even quest (not related to this introduction but might have been caused by the added time used to create the system)

Many mod authors have expanded on the settlement system allowing much more flexibility, added NPCs and more customization and even recently I have seen, some sort of auto advance so that when you leave and come back you see it develop.

This shows that they (Bethesda) didn't flesh out the system properly in my opinion since mod authors made short work on addressing the shortcomings of the system. Sad that they (Bethesda) is giving less and less actual "RPG" elements and more of a sandbox world to have mod authors develop the game.

AS for the DLC complaint... There were weak DLCs in the past as well for Oblivion, Fallout 3, NV and Skyrim. Remember the "horse armor"? I don't see that as caused by the additional settlement system just more of their money pinching and time constraints and dev limitations.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:43 pm

@"ritualclarity" the recent JRPG Ni No Kuni 2 showed how a system like this would be done correctly. the Kingdom building stuff there reminded me of Fallout 4's settlement building but done much better. You had tons of stuff to upgrade that brought tangible gameplay benefits. Recruiting certain citizens, upgrading certain facilities would open up side quests. I understand in Fallout's world having multiple potential settlements to look after made sense, but the paltry limit on the amount of citizens per settlement really sucked. in my Fallout 4 playthrough i would have much preferred to have the Castle and sanctuary as the only settlements and send everyone to those 2 and really build them out.


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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:37 am

Honestly, I think it's the best shot at Roleplaying you've got in the game.
I just wish they did more with it - Adding some neat radiant quests every now and again where a settler gets kidnapped or a fight breaks out or something... They could've atleast given your settlers randomly generated names.

But aye, I think it's a great addition, just... In it's infancy in Fallout 4, needs a lot of work done on it.

And no, I don't think it 'Ruined' the game or replaced interesting locations - If you look at how they're laid out, they're usually in places where a separate town really wouldn't make sense to be or actually part of one themselves in the case of Jamaica Plains or Bunker Hill. But aye, It's an RPG - I think people are slowly losing a grip on what that means at it's core. And RPG isn't a game with a terrific story, sure it might have one. But at it's core, it's a game that facilitates your roleplaying, which I felt the settlement system did for Fallout 4 where things like a voiced protagonist failed it.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:17 am

I disagree, yeah I know Fallout 4 is not role-playing game, just google it & there is such an article saying bethesda don't know what FO4 it's, but my points is; Fallout 4 is great action shooter game & its settlement mode offered the best possible way to craft & rebuild your own illusion of dream in video games, but it does have a flaws with it nonetheless, fallout 4 emphasize too MUCH, yeah I said too MUCH on settlement, ok yeah fallout 4 is not RPG like previous fallout used to right? but take a look how many settlements in fallout 4 map & do you guys ever think with your head why there is settlement near the edge of glowing sea, or why this settlement near the enemy camp ghoul super mutant raider it doesn't make sense it really destroy a bit of bethesda image as great world building but still its stupid that this settlement with 2 people in it a father with his son, living like nothing happen via it surrounding, I mean this settlement really fucking CLOSED with this enemies placement does it make sense? lol!
so yeah, its great addition to the game but it flaws is really stupid everytimes I played it, I often thinking maybe bethesda don't really fit with Fallout universe on how actually post apocalyptic land work, to think their owned games elder scrolls a way better world, but yeah either way its fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:12 am

I think it was potentially a good addition but it was given too much focus (and much like a lot of Fallout 4's features) and brought up too early. Just another example of the disconnect between the main plot and the gameplay but that's a whole different tangent. The biggest issues with the settlements is like others have said it just leads to less interesting towns in the game to make way for player run shanty towns filled with unamed generic "settlers" with no personality. Maybe it's just me but I always thought the Wasteland Defense and other mods to build towns in Fallout 3/NV were cool but I never centered an entire playthrough around it and Fallout 4 is the same way except instead of it being a little side thing I optionally elected to download it was something that the game put prime focus on that I had to ignore and because so much of the game's focus was put on that it left a big gaping whole where towns like Megaton, Novac, New Vegas, Rivet City and others should be.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:19 pm

I really enjoy it for the amount of stuff we can build, reinforcing the castle and building my own player home at the Red Rocket Truck Shop were one of the few enjoyable parts of playing Fallout 4 for me. I, however, do not like the focus that the game gave to settlement building, the general of the minutemen is forced to build a bed for everyone, give a job for every single person and still defend them once raiders come knocking, some stuff should be sorted randomly without the player's forced input.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:51 pm

Depends. I feel like, core concept, it was sound - rebuilding and repopulating the wasteland around little hubs of activity. That basically fits with the idea of Fallout - civilization after the latter's ended, etc.. I think it was just the implementation that was slightly shite. They copped the build system from a mod for NV, put a shiny coat of paint on it and some flashing lights, took out all of the faction stuff, and made it apart of the main quest. It had some fun aspects but overall I think it was improperly handled. It feels like they're kind of ditching the RPG/narrative aspects and focusing solely on the shooter and builder elements, so maybe they'll rework it so it feels a little more in-place in 76. Otherwise I think I prefer the mod.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:16 am

@Unejin wrote:
the general of the minutemen is forced to build a bed for everyone, give a job for every single person and still defend them once raiders come knocking, some stuff should be sorted randomly without the player's forced input.
Bethesda has always been terrible with the whole "babysitter" effect when it comes to factions. They always want to make you the great leader of a faction but instead of feeling in charge you're going around and cleaning up after everyone. Can't even really rely on your settlers to defend since they love to suicide charge with their shitty pipe weapons so you have to come and do that yourself too. It makes you feel like less of a "general" of the Minutemen and more like a janitor and errand boy. For all the problems they have the Railroad and Brotherhood of Steel at least don't try and pretend you're actually the leader of anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:25 pm

I basically agree with the overall conclusions I’m seeing here. Was it fun? Yes, for about an hour. The fact that the settlements were so useless didn’t help. I ended up using them as storage safe houses. Had Bethesda made your settlements part of some quests it would have made them have an actual springs. Think ‘goodsprings vs powder gangers.’ In that quest, in fnv, you had to choose a side, build up your supplies, and attack/defend. They could’ve implemented this idea into FO4 in which your settlement’s defenses factored in to the number of casualties. The dlcs tried to implement this, but it was done poorly and had no roots in any particular non-radiant quest. Wasted potential.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:46 pm

I thought the settlement building was a great addition, but it definitely could have used some more polishing (I can't build a decent looking settlement without cutting my frame-rate in half).

I also don't care for how much FO4 focused on it - I mean, have you tried playing through FO4 without using settlement building? The game feels a little bit empty because of how much space is devoted to it. It shouldn't have taken anything away from the game and should have been 100% optional.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's settlement system a good addition?   Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:58 am

I did not touch the base building at all because I'd rather be running around shooting some mirelurks and raiders. It was also originally at its base very clunky. But the mods have made it more viable now. I think the game is still playable without it. It definitely gives you an option to ignore it without it having it annoy you every second.
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