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 The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.

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fermindal

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PostSubject: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:21 am

We all know that the bad factions of fallout are not liked but though its harsh i think they are the best for the world.
i mean every faction always tries to follow the style of the old world ( thats why we see them as good) but honestly doing this will cause to always fail because of the freedom thats its given. i mean lets see.

The master: yeah nobody wants to be turned into a super mutant but without race and all under the master guidance it would be the perfect society, sure people will suffer but its for the greater good.tough super mutants were sterile im sure it could be solved, also Marcus said that that was false( i believe he was joking though.

The enclave: this as the brotherhood are to fail too as they're are more of an army than a government.

The legion: this faction is a very cruel one but listen to this, the legion believes in their leader as for that the will all be together to follow him, that means no war. sure people will suffer as the legion rises but they're are going to die anyway, better a dark age for a better future than the sufferment of the wasteland for ever. Yeah people say that when Caesar dies it will fall apart but as Boone said it will have no impact, and others too mentioned that.

The institute its not really evil and at the end if the player allies with them he can decide how will he manage it.

Anyway thats just my opinion, Thanks for stopping by.

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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:51 am

If Caesar dies, they say it won't have an effect on the Legion leading up to the battle of Hoover Dam. Rather than fall apart, they steel themselves for the battle in Caesar's memory, but if they lose the battle, that's when they're doomed, Lanius or no.

As for their end goals, sure, if they ruled the country, there wouldn't be any war. There'd still be slaves, though. Women would be breeding stock, men would be soldiers or chattel, medicine and technological advancements would be thrown into a fire. Personally, war seems more ethically sound than Caesar's rule. I don't really care if a society is nominally peaceful, if that "peace" is paid for through genocide, rape, and the execution of innocent people. It's an evil society, and it needs to be stopped.

As for the others, the Master's whole plan is impossible, because super mutants are sterile. Plus, most of them are dumb as bricks, and solve all their problems with force. Wouldn't trust their society. The Enclave isn't really trying to improve the world. They just want to kill everyone who isn't Enclave personnel.

The Institute... Is stupid. For all their talk of making a "better world", they showcase absolutely zero examples of anything remotely positive. They don't fight raiders, they don't share their farming tech, their teleportation capabilities, meds, weapons, shelter, armor... What they do is create super mutants, which they then release on the people above. They kidnap, murder, and replace random people for no adequately explained reason, and then have their infiltrators kill everyone they've been spying on once the reconnaissance is completed. At least the other groups commit atrocities with some good (albeit, incredibly misguided)intentions.
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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:18 am

Good points, well i guess the ceaser one is correct, you changed my mind about the legion, as for super mutant being stupid here is a quote from the wiki: While some of them can be rather stupid, in general they are more intelligent and civilized than their distant Vault 87 and Institute cousins in the Capital Wasteland and Commonwealth. so for super mutants i guess is better to have some stupid ones for a perfect society and as for the sterile part Marcus commented that it takes a while for them to "get the juices running". note that the mariposa mutatnts are the only one with genitalia, the D.C ones dont.

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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:37 am

Plenty of them are smart, I just mean that there are more dumb ones than smart ones, on account of the second-gens. Black Mountain was a friendly outpost that Marcus ran, until Tabitha got the second-gens to revolt against him.

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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:41 am

Hm... What's your opinion on Mr. House? Many perceive him as "bad" so I'd like to know. Do you think he's morally better and smarter than the factions you mentioned?
Just curious about your philosophy.
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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:06 am

Correct me if I'm wrong... But Synths are sent to the surface to gather technology / resources that the institute requires. That or replace people who are in the position to supply those resources / intel - See Danse / That farmer bloke at the water treatment plant. As for never doing anything positive... I remember a specific loading slide mentioning how at first- The Institute and the people of the commonwealth got on well together and helped eachother out - And that mistrust on both sides ended that relationship.

Good Intentions are everywhere in the institute - As are questionable ones, Synths especially... How they're treated is... Odd and pretty contentious. On one hand, they're living beings with as much potential as any human... On the other, those living beings can be synthesized with the flick of the wrist and cost very little to the Institute. But outside of Synths... The Institute intends to, if I'm remembering things right... Reset the surface so to speak, wait for humanity to die out, then replant and repopulate the earth.

It's a long-con sure, and the path to this goal is paved with a ton of fiendish moves on the Institute's part... But atleast they have a somewhat benign end-goal.

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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:29 pm

I think it depends. It would be good for the Mojave if the Legion takes over IF Caesar is alive. He plans on changing the Legion by making them to engage and eventually conquer the NCR then create a synthesis of both cultures. According to him, it would turn the Legion from a roaming army to a standing one who protects its lands.

The Legion's meritocracy will probably get rid of the bureaucracy and corruption in the NCR. In turn NCR culture will hopefully get rid of the savagery in the Legion and help mold a new kind of army.

I doubt this would happen if Lanius or anyone in the Legion takes over as there is no one who fully understands Caesars ideals(based from the dialogue in the game).

The Enclave is a good shot for humanity, too bad they are always led by a genocidal maniac.

I agree with you. The Institute as an organization is not inherently "Bad". They have just been underground for so long that they are so disconnected from the people of the commonwealth. This disconnect is causing their directors to make decisions that harm people without them realizing it.

The Commonwealth has a shot if the Institute is led by a benevolent Sole Survivor.

The Master is good for a certain point of view. Yes, you can erase suffering if everyone is united into one being but it also removes individuality. If individuality ceases to exist then there would no longer be a "You" which pretty much equates to death.

So depending on your view on life that could be a good or a bad thing.
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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:37 pm

For me, They are all bad because every single faction wants power, The ncr the legion the enclave the institute, they don’t care of people who lives in the wasteland. This is my opinion
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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:38 pm

@pwninronan house gives a future to humanity yes, but i wouldn't give that much power to a man, also everybody is going to die so whats the point of a future, better to have fun.

@Blake_ yes but power controls people, without power you cant not rule people for a better world, but i agree except for the institute as they have everything they want.

@IIHawkerII have you seen the end of the world movie?, its an alien race that replaces Bad people with robots to help humanity but fails and ends up replacing everyone because they fail to understand humanity, thats basically the institute

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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:14 am

@fermindal wrote:
@pwninronan house gives a future to humanity yes, but i wouldn't give that much power to a man, also everybody is going to die so whats the point of a future, better to have fun.

Those were some thoughtful answers. +1 rep!
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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:58 am

I feel like part of the issue is that the writers and developers have repeatedly stated that all the factions in NV are supposed to be morally gray, Legion included. So, people take them too literally and act as if the Legion cannot be an evil detriment to society, and the NCR cannot be generally a force for good.

Yes, the NCR has some corrupt individuals within the ranks. Yes, they do have an issue with bureaucracy. And nobody likes being taxed. But the standards for living in the Republic are pretty good. Education, access to food and water, no fear that you'll be murdered by some junkie when you step out onto your porch. And, they generally hold themselves to a pretty good standard of ethics. They don't practice slavery or genocide, they tend to at least try diplomacy before going in guns blazing, they hold soldiers accountable for war crimes like Bitter Springs. And I tend to prefer the Independent options for New Vegas, so I'm not some hardcore NCR fanboy. I just see this tendency for people to say: "Oh, the NCR is just as bad/worse than the Legion." And that simply isn't true. Unless you're some kind of sociopath, the Legion's actions are evil, hands down. I defy anyone to name a context where crucifying somebody for selling drugs is considered justice, and taking enemy soldiers captive and forcing them to fight to the death in gladiatorial combat for your amusement is fair play.

Like, you can point to Moore and Lee as proof that the NCR is ethically dubious, but at least they have genuinely good people like Hsu and Crocker in their ranks, as well. You just can't say that about the Legion. Almost every member will happily tell you about how they look forward to raping slaves, and how the weak deserve to die, and how their brothers-in-arms who die in combat deserved it for their own weakness. The nicest member of the Legion is probably Canyon-Runner, the slavemaster, and I only give him that "honor" because he's at least polite when interacting with the Courier., which is more than can be said for literally every other member.

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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:09 am

@th3overseer
thank you for your answer and tough what is "evil" can be subjective you are right about the legion and the NCR .

you say NCR is good for the mojave and that the legion is bad for it, i think thats true but for short terms,
in the long run NCR will be corrupted and destroyed and the legion will create a acceptable society. Yes they say the weak deserve to die and tough i not support that, for the world of fallout i think it works as it makes the weak to dissapear or give the hope that someday they can be the strong ones wich will make the legion stronger  wich makes the society stronger., weak men create bad time , strong men creates good ones.

As for the context ones i think crucifying the drug dealers is necessary if we want to recover ourselfs , we cant let this people slow down the progress,a for the enemy soldiers i think is fair play, they are in war they know what they're are getting into and at least they give them a chance to fight. Again the legion is evil but is necessary evil.

Thanks for taking the time to post your opinions as i like to share toughs with other fallout fans.

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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:37 am

See, I think a necessary evil is just things like shooting the enemy in the face. Unpleasant, but it's you or them. Tossing them in an arena and making them hack each other to death with machetes, that's some psychotic barbarian shit.

I do think that the NCR has serious failings, and my personal viewpoint is that the Independent ending is the best one for the Mojave. I just think that, if we're talking ethics, the NCR is waaaaay above the Legion. Both of them ultimately do have noble intentions, but the Legion is so fond of atrocities that I can't really say that their ends justify the means.

Something I really applaud Obsidian for is writing factions with enough depth that people can have impassioned debates about them eight years after the game came out. I think the Legion are fantastic villains, but definitely still villains.

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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:43 pm

I honestly like to think about the little 'factions'. Republic of Dave is one of my favorites. What if it expanded, or survived? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:11 pm

@GoofyGoo6er wrote:
I honestly like to think about the little 'factions'. Republic of Dave is one of my favorites. What if it expanded, or survived? Smile

Dave was an autocrat in waiting if you ask me. I never trusted that guy.
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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:14 pm

@Blake_ wrote:
For me, They are all bad because every single faction wants power, The ncr the legion the enclave the institute, they don’t care of people who lives in the wasteland. This is my opinion

But to create security you need power. Peace is stablished through the use of force, always. To me, it's the opossite, I think all the factions are good, but we can discuss which one has the best way to accomplish a better world, and that, I believe, is Mr. House.
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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:07 pm

@Firiox its the exact thing i said, glad to see someone who thinks the same way.

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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:48 pm

@fermindal Glad too Hugging
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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:25 pm

i personally feel that The Institute, Mr. House, and the FOTA (followers of the apocalypse) are the only ones that would actually get things done in the long run..though, in my opinion the FOTA are too "soft" and likely wouldn't deal well with leadership or deal well at all under pressure. The Institute just needs good leadership and it'll get it's sh..stuff together, and as for Mr. House he seems to have a "good head on his shoulders" and more importantly has crazy advanced tech, tech that he's willing to share to help improve things
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PostSubject: Re: The harsh truth about the "Bad' factions of fallout.   Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:47 pm

I don't really consider the Institute "evil". Misguided? maybe. But evil? No. The Institute attempted to help the commonwealth by forming the Commonwealth Provisional Government (CPG). However infighting resulted in the leaders more or less killing each other except the Institute representative resulting in everyone blaming them for the fall of the CPG. The Broken Mask Incident, in which a synth murdered a bunch of people in diamond city, only happened because a group of scientists pushed a synth out without approval from the director before it was finished.
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