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 Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?

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Jarrah125

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PostSubject: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:38 am

I kill him almost every playthrough but i have only sided with him a couple of times to get all the endings

Thoughts on what he says and his actions?
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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:43 am

As far as I've seen, most people fuckin' hate him. Most likely because he enslaves and kills people for his enjoyment, but that may just be me.

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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:14 am

Well, I agree with him on the NCR repeating the Old World's mistakes but that's about it. He's idealistic about uniting humanity when he has a brain tumor and his legate/successor is just a follower - you can see what he does if you let Lanius lead the legion.

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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:19 am

Caesars Legion has got discipline in its ranks, where the NCR lacks in its military, at least I think. But, the act of Crucifying, enslavement, and punishing anyone who opposes/does not support them leads me to overall hate the Legion because it would just be worst for what the Mojave wasteland currently has, Securitrons and a Tyrannical Mr. House. Not to mention those dang Legion Assassins that just pop out of nowhere and attack you every five minutes.
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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:14 am

I agree with him on the NCR repeating the Old World's mistakes other then that i do when im using armor overhaul mods for the first time haha but that aside no iv always been a House supporter sense ya know without him there wouldn't be much ov a New Vegas also yes i know "he would make the same old world mistakes" but i don't believe so he sees the NCR for what they are after all he's seen it before and knows how to handle them thanks for posting the thread!

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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:22 am

Caesar is a very intelligent man. Perhaps the most intelligent of all the characters in New Vegas. His goals are noble, and I believe him to be the one true hope for the wasteland to become something again. His methods, while extreme, I believe are necessary. The wasteland and all within it must be burned, purified - for something better to triumphantly rise from the ashes.

All that said, though... I never personally side with him or the Legion. But neither do I kill him. His unethical methods conflict with my personal morals. However... if I'm roleplaying as a character who either supports the Legion or outright hates them, then that changes. I'll either die for Caesar or watch him die.
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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:09 am

Caesar's Legion is really just the Empire from Star Wars. Caesar is Palpatine, Legate Lanius is Vader. Lanius' tribe surrendered to Caesar and so after Lanius had went into a frenzy killing a lot of Caesar's men, Caesar offered him a place in the Legion and a mask to cover up what was left of his face.

In that regard, no. A lot of people hate both Caesar's Legion and the Empire, but at least the Empire had cool armour.

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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:37 am

concidering that most of the outer lands are canabals, tribes, canabals, deathclaw, canabals and more canabals his methods may seem extreme but he exist in an extreme world.

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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:05 am

i dislike his tunnel vision when it comes to stuff like stim packs. but, i think, he has a plan and he is sticking to it, even though i dont agree with his views on women, or his erasing of tribal identaties, over all, i still go ncr, just because i like them, and what they hope to be, when tanni was the president
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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:13 am

He sounds like a Templar (from the Assassin's Creed series) to me
Control and enslave mankind to achieve peace. Disregard free will, totalitarian control is more efficient. That's what he sounds like, and in that pursuit, he wreaks as much unnecessary havoc and genocide as possible.

Also, although I personally wouldn't put women in harm's way (in armed forces) I think his sexism goes beyond that, and only treats women like breeders and cleaners. So that's fucked up.

I think trying to unify all the tribes/territories is honorable, but he should respect the individuality of each community, and not rule through force and fear.

The chem ban is reasonable, I guess, but maybe too harshly enforced.

Bottom line, I go against him every single time.
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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:59 am

I did a legion playthrough, I enjoyed being evil for a change, I can see some of their views though I don't necessarily agree with them.

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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:13 pm

An interesting detail that Josh Sawyer mentioned about Caesar was that his karma was set as neutral rather than evil. Anyone's immediate thought is, "wait what? The guy who crucifies people and burns people alive is "neutral"?"

Sawyer's reasoning was that Caesar is like Mr Kurtz from Heart of Darkness (you can see this both through his backstory of being a "civilised man" entering the "savage society" and becoming "savage" himself, and through his baldness (Kurtz is famously bald).

A detail I really like is that Arcade Gannon will get angry about Caesar's reasons for doing what he did, but you can actually respond empathetically in a way that doesn't annoy Arcade. You can say something along the lines of, "I don't think we can truly understand what he and the Legion have been through." Caesar has had to do some truly evil things, but they were always in the name of survival, both for himself and for humanity. He's seen the corruption of the NCR and fears the world entering a state similar to that which led to the Great War. His reasons are pretty understandable even if his actions are inexcusable.

I don't agree with Caesar on his belief that might makes right or that individuals should be mechanisms of the state (both, in his own words, deliberately fascist doctrines) nor do I agree with his interesting Hegelian dialectic argument, as personally I don't believe in teleological theories on history. As in, that human history is directed towards an end-goal where we all exist in a utopian society (events like the Dark Ages are proof against this). But I can certainly empathise with someone like Caesar. He's not a madman who just wants to see the world burn (neither is Lanius for that matter) Caesar actually wants to save the world. It's just a pity that he thinks murdering and enslaving people is the best way to achieve that.

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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:17 pm

Considering the Wasteland is becoming semi-morden now [ like bloody vegas cmon ]

The Legion has the right idea , as a part will rebel , a majority will surrender

Fear is a weapon , something NCR does not have at all times


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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:53 am

I agree with him I think he is a cool guy lol but I would rather him than the ncr
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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:10 am

Personally I don't agree with him, but I love talking to him, because he is a very intelligent and interesting character.

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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:15 am

I dunno. Caesar felt like the "I'm smarter than you because I read my 6th grade history book" kind of guy, or some really spicy Shakespeare.
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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:19 am

@ClinicallyProven Very true, very true. It does feel like he speaks to everyone like an undesirable.

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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:35 am

Somewhat, but I can't exactly say that his means to his ends are justifiable. To be honest when I first heard of Ceasar I assumed he was some wacko who had a bit too much jet and had seen one too many old gladiator movies. So I was very surprised to see how civilized and well mannered he appeared when I first met the character. At least with high intelligence for your character that is in regards to the well mannered part.

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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:03 am

It's said in the game that all his trade routes are safe, I'm pretty sure their is no tax but I could be wrong, his lands are stable and their are no raiders, bandits and or outlaws, plus he has that groovy Roman aesthetic however he's still an asshole.

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PostSubject: Re: Does anybody actually agree with Caesar?   Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:08 am

His chem ban is very reasonable and can the wasteland actually make a better place. The merging of the tribes is also not that bad. The whole stuff with crucifixion is fucked up, so he definitely has his pros and cons. Another thing I like about him is that he's one of the most educated people in the mojave. At first he seems like a brutal savage, but after you meet him he's a decent educated and somewhat reasonable guy. I actually partly agree with Caesar.

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