ElMaldito wrote:

@IRORIEH Well said, forgot to put that on my comment about the PA being given to the player so early in the game and so easily to find later on. Oh also, let's not forget the damn retcons, 4 butchered the lore like no other Fallout.

I can get over some retcons, sometimes they're integral to the game moving forward, and need to be made for the sake of future consistency. That said, certain stuff in Fallout 4 just comes off as lazy mistakes, like having Pre-War Jet. That is clearly a mistake by someone who doesn't know the lore, or forgot about it. But it's simple things like that which are annoying when they add up.

Personally, I despise the addition of T-60 PA pre-war. Is Bethesda really gonna add new Pre-War Power Armour every game now? It's silly. I mean, they could easily explain that the Brotherhood designed it Post-War using their t-45 suits and the Hellfire designs they got from the Enclave. If you look at the T-60 PA their are even parts of it like the abdomen and the tubing on the back that look really similar to the Hellfire suit. It would have been far better, and built on existing lore, as opposed to just introducing something for the sake of it. It's just lazy.

@IRORIEH

The Jet thing is what got me. The lore is clearly not there, at least for some of the lore-oriented players of Fallout. Anybody who played the older games (or dug into the lore) should know that a guy named Myron was credited in creating Jet.

The T-60 PA issue though, you pose a great solution: just say that a chapter of BoS experimented with their T-45's and Hellfire designs to come up with a hybrid result which is the T-60. Lore usually the combination of facts and information to build a whole world and Fallout 4...didn't really do it that well. There could have been some fixes if they just built onto existing lore.

Anyways, you make valid points and I couldn't agree with you more. Here's to remembering the good ol' days.

The more I read into it and what I know about Bethesda Gamebryo history this is what I gathered, The Creation Engine is Gamebryo but its not. It is a self coded compiled engine in house by Bethesda and guess who else? Nvidia, Sooooooooooo the new scripting code is different. Gameworks is implemented in permanently, they now have an engine that is more of a bastard child than their last one, they did purchase a license for a gamebro version before Lightspeed, but it seems they used that to make their bastard clone. With the new scripting language in the engine probably brought to the creation engine from NVIDIA most in house cannot script complex quest for it. Thus FO4 is lacking in content and quest. So few in house are working on that aspect of the game for right now.

What does that mean for us? Less custom quest mods/content from the modding community its such a pain. Bethesda gave the middle finger with the creation club. We are not seeing much in terms of creation club mods on skyrim SE nor VR. Very few on FO4 vs what we got for past Eldar Scroll/FO Games. If Bethesda does not hit a home run on their next big game franchise it will be the start of the end, they stumble on Fallout 76 do not deliver on their promises, server issues that will just be the beginning of the fall the nails getting ready for the coffin.


Well everyone complained they wanted a new engine... they gave it to us sort of... we got a new bastard of Gamebryo and Nvidia helped and they called it the Creation Engine. They honestly should had purchased a license for Gamebryo Lightspeed oh well too late now. LoL But from what I have been reading about the engine what they did that explains a lot.

You know, I kinda wish that Obsidian could pick the reins up and continue their good work. I think they did marvelous with NV, then again I am biased perhaps. Fallout 76 could be the downfall if they do not deliver.

Alot of their reputation and fanbase could be riding on this one particular title. I was not impressed with FO4 and I know others who feel the same way, 76 could net more negativity and criticism. I feel that the company now sees the Fallout franchise as a cash cow (much like Disney with Star Wars).

Bethesda took the easy way out and reused their "old engine" instead of purchasing a new license like you said @donta1979

I guess all of us here at GUN will be at the bar (so to speak) to look on to what the future holds for Bethesda's renditions.

irishmarksman92 wrote:

You know, I kinda wish that Obsidian could pick the reins up and continue their good work. I think they did marvelous with NV, then again I am biased perhaps. Fallout 76 could be the downfall if they do not deliver.

Alot of their reputation and fanbase could be riding on this one particular title. I was not impressed with FO4 and I know others who feel the same way, 76 could net more negativity and criticism. I feel that the company now sees the Fallout franchise as a cash cow (much like Disney with Star Wars).

Bethesda took the easy way out and reused their "old engine" instead of purchasing a new license like you said @donta1979

I guess all of us here at GUN will be at the bar (so to speak) to look on to what the future holds for Bethesda's renditions.

What troubles me also with Vault 76 They do not have the capacity on their servers to handle the mass load, as soon as the beta got announced their servers pretty much crashed with the influx of traffic. That means their websites didn't work, bethesda.net didn't work, the creation club didn't work. I honestly think they are not prepared. It is going to be a nasty launch, Also since Bethesda is doing this on their side without other big digital distributors ohhh as the beta goes live to the game launch going life their servers are going to get hammered with downloads, people trying to login the works.

I still couldn't put to words exactly how I feel with the game because it's good on a few aspects and questionable on a few other. I do hope Bethesda references the Metro series in terms of the post-apocalyptic feel because there really are times that Fallout 4 plays out like a happy dead world, instead of something that we should fear and be cautious about.

In my opinion, you can't really compare Fallout 4 to other Fallout games. They are just too damn different. In many ways, Fallout 4 felt like a post-apocalyptic Dragon Age or Mass Effect game for me. Are Mass Effect and Dragon Age bad games ? Absolutely not, I'd say, but they are nothing like Fallout games...

I feel like Fallout 3 / NV and Fallout 4 has the same overhaul quality but Fallout 4 tries to set itself apart from other FO games for better and for worse.

Of course, if you start FO4 expecting a game like New Vegas, you'll be disappointed. However, if you just play the game for what it is, it's actually quite good ! I'd argue that it's even as good as other recent games in the series, just different...

Personally i hate F4 for killing the RPG elements although before its release i dint expect much from Bethesda. I dont really think Haward & Co. really understood the concept of this game. I am old school fallout fan who loves F1 and F2 so the real third part (and actually last part) of Fallout was New Vegas for me. Nevertheless i have to say that from the graphical point of view F4 looks pretty nice and there is several new cool elements so because of that i am very excited and waiting for project F4: New Vegas to be completed.

FafnirEtherion wrote:

In my opinion, you can't really compare Fallout 4 to other Fallout games.

I respectfully disagree. You can absolutely compare Fallout 1 and 2 to 4. You can compare the story-telling aspect, the role-playing, music and the replay value. They're in the same universe. You can compare The Dark Knight trilogy and Batman vs Superman, they're both DC and have Batman in it, but one of them is competently made.
I first played New Vegas, that was my first introduction into the Fallout universe. Then I played the first one and I absolutely enjoyed it because it has everything you can ask for in a Fallout game. I didn't enjoy Fallout 4 because it failed to capture what the originals and New Vegas had. I won't lower my standards to enjoy a poorly made game when games before it were better. I won't lower my standards for a game like F.E.A.R 2 when the first one was far superior.
When you say Fallout 4 is just as good as the new ones, which aspect are you talking about? Story-telling, RPG elements, character development, lore-consistancy? Graphically, it's far better but everything else it fails at. You enjoy Fallout 4, that's fine, I have no problem with that. But I fail to see how Fallout 4 could even be on par with the likes of Fallout New Vegas when NV succeeded in so many areas while 4 failed in more areas than succeeded.

RangerGUN wrote:

But I fail to see how Fallout 4 could even be on par with the likes of Fallout New Vegas when NV succeeded in so many areas while 4 failed in more areas than succeeded

This, I will agree with 100%; the only thing I liked about Fallout 4 was the gunplay and the certain mechanics that were introduced like melee attacks etc. but it felt really lackluster compare to other titles like 3 and NV.

Rewinding back a bit to @donta1979

donta1979 wrote:

What troubles me also with Vault 76 They do not have the capacity on their servers to handle the mass load, as soon as the beta got announced their servers pretty much crashed with the influx of traffic. That means their websites didn't work, bethesda.net didn't work, the creation club didn't work. I honestly think they are not prepared. It is going to be a nasty launch, Also since Bethesda is doing this on their side without other big digital distributors ohhh as the beta goes live to the game launch going life their servers are going to get hammered with downloads, people trying to login the works.

This information provided, it will be a nasty launch. After E3 I stopped following news about 76 because it seems they over-hype the games now on such little promise. I think that Bethesda is digging a hole and they are not quite sure what it's for. Will I buy Fallout 76? Perhaps I will but there are mods coming out for New Vegas that I was more excited about

I think I'm in the same boat with a lot of you I think. Gameplay wise it was great but it had a boring, lackluster story. The companions were fun though. Huge improvement over something like Skyrim where all the npcs including "unique" ones have the same five voices

I voted Yes on the premise that we are looking at it as a role playing game.

Fallout 4 did improvements to the Fallout franchise such as how they overhauled how Power Armor works, certain aspects of gunplay, graphics and certain animations however some of these "improvements" also limits role play such as the 4 choice dialogue, the voiced protagonist(to some extent), complete removal of skills and lack of "tangible" consequences from your decisions.

I do not think that Fallout 4 is the worst of the games in the franchise(Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel holds that crown and will not be toppled i hope) but it is definitely not the best.

This feels like the baitiest bait that's ever baited... o_o

on my opinion past fallout is better than fallout 4 because is replay ability

IIHawkerII wrote:

This feels like the baitiest bait that's ever baited... o_o

No not bait at all, Fallout 4 the combat, gameplay, and its environment as awesome as it it really lacks choice of the past games, consequences, shaping the ending. Where FO4 shines it is pretty bland compared to past games that hit the home runs in the RPG factor.

Unfortunately yes. S.P.E.C.I.A.L doesn`t play a role, there are not enough quests in the game, the plot turns predictable in the first hours of the game..

In many ways the previous games were much better, especially from an RPG stand-point. If you wanted to, and built your character in such a way, you could do pretty much the whole game as a pacifist, (not that I ever did). S.P.E.C.I.A.L, perks, and skills were important and gave a feel that the character was tailored to the type of character that you wanted to play. I don't feel that is the case with FO4.

That being said, there are some things I absolutely love about FO4 over the other games. #1 being dogmeat, being a German Shepherd, (I renamed him Stryder after my late and beloved German Shepherd). With the improved graphics, and the motion capture, they knocked it out of the park as far as I am concerned..yes I actually got a little choked up when I first saw the FO4 trailer and the scene transitions to post war, dog meat jumps up to look in the crib..

I have not played 3 much from Bethesda's take on the franchise, so I will only touch on Fallout New Vegass and Fallout 4. First I want to say that both games are great in my opinion. However, I feel like Fallout New Vegas is superior to Fallout 4 when you look at it from a pure RPG standpoint. New Vegas has a story where there are no right or wrong answers and it is completely up to the players moral choices that determen the ending. I feel like Obsidian  tried to pull the Fallout franchise back to the original lore created by Black Isle.

I also find the DLC's from Fallout New Vegas superior to the ones from Fallout 4. Again, both games had good DLC's, but to me none of the actual expansions from Fallout 4 are remotely as memorable as the ones from New Vegas.

Fallout 4 added a lot of new things that didn't speak to me in a huge way personally, like settlement building, the whole story revolving around synths or the minutemen. Especially the minutemen because in a post apocalyptic I want to experience the progress of what the world left behind, like the Brotherhood of Steel, the NCR and the remaining vault dwellers, not to relive the acient past with a new version of a ages old extinct faction.

However I do think Fallout 4 has a few things it has going for them, like gunplay, power armor system implemetation, and vanilla graphics (you can say you can make New Vegas look beautifull with mods, but the same aplies to Fallout 4).

I feel like in New Vegas you are cought in the middle of everything and are actually involved in them, with a character build you can costumize to your likings. While Fallout 4 let's you look from a distance, with a character that has a set background with a simplistic progression system. Fallout 4 doesn't allow me to play the way I want as much as New Vegas encourages me to (to me).

In the end, I absolutely loved both games. But to give you my take on your question, yes the old ones feel better to me than Fallout 4. I am not even going to start about Fallout 76, as in my humble opinion it shouldn't be named a Fallout game. Even then, I know a lot of people will love it to death and I find that wonderfull and the same Fallout 4 and New Vegas, to each their own .

Aside from actually playing like a decent shooter, for me it's no question. I can't even mod Fallout 4 to a point where I can play it for more than a few weeks at a time without becoming bored and dropping it for months wheras I've dumped thousands of hours into Fallout New Vegas. With Fallout 4 it's just like a constant exercise in "one step forward and two steps back".

They finally get the ancient game engine to produce some decent looking faces... to be applied to some of the most lackluster and boring characters of the entire franchise.

The gunplay is superb and feels like an actually first/third person shooter with satisfying feeling combat that actually feels like the game was built for it and not the Morrowind engine struggling to make things work... only to have barely any interesting locations to fight people and the few decent one's you replay over and over and over and over again in mindless radiant quests where you have to clear out the same God Damn raiders you just cleared out last week.

Real gun customization is here! You can modify guns in a pretty good variety of ways with all sorts of attachments and modifications that meaningfully change up how a gun functions and what uses it has... only to have some of the smallest number of base guns in the game to modify so that things quickly become stale as you fight the same slightly different pipe pistol wielding raider or combat rifle gunner again and again.

And this isn't even getting into the fact just about all RPG elements have been stripped out. No skills, voice protagonist, far far far fewer conversation options and no skill checks besides percentage based speech checks that rarely result in anything but caps yadda yadda yadda it's not a new fresh hot take to talk about the absolute murder of all RPG aspects in Fallout 4 but this combined with the fact that the only improvements come with a massive asterisk is what really drives the final nail into Fallout 4 coffin for me. I only hope that in the future Bethesda learns from their mistakes but considering all of their games since Morrowind have only gotten slimmed down as time goes on and the next Fallout game is a multiplayer only sandbox faff about meaninglessly game that's a pretty tiny fuckin hope.

@mindstormer You, my good man are the perfect standard for comparisons between the two games. Congratulations!