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 "What happened to the modding community?" Rant

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Keevs



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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:39 pm

@Tesvixen it's actually so depressing how true that is, it's so hard to trust people these days. Everyone just wants this and that without any of the work or effort. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:13 pm

First, I thought "Xil, shut the hell up, close the tab and go mod some more. You don't want to get involved into yet another rant about modding". But here I am..
So what happened to the modding community?
Nothing. We have an influx of new mod authors that are not exactly familiar with our own "rules". And we have tons of new mod users, including console-only owners.
Back in the days, when Oblivion was released and mods started to pop out - it was exactly the same as right now, except console users. When Fallout 3 came out - same story. Vegas was a bit different, we had all the tools available at day one thanks to F3. But even in Vegas - first year of modding was very much similar to all other games. Skyrim - same story here, but mod authors went further and developed useful tools to mod it a lot quicker (and shit tons of bugs, "Now I become TESsnip, the destroyer of savegames").
Story basically repeats itself. We get a new game, influx of modauthors and users, first year or two of "trial and error" mods, accompanied by skimpy armors\body mods\sexy makeups\hot-chick-to-fap-on.
Now everybody will yell at me "But Xil! Bethnet!". So what? We had similar stuff before. Steam workshop for Skyrim. And truth be said - it's a lot worse than Bethnet. Sure, Bethnet is user-centric system, with trolls and mod theft, and just ugly looking. But the modding community is bloody the same. Same people, making pretty much the same mods as they did for Skyrim\Vegas\F3\Oblivion. Users are also the same, at least the concept of "standard mod user" is the same. "I want mods now, I want them perfect, without conflicts and don't you effin make me wait for an update more than 3 minutes".
Some authors aren't happy with the game itself, and decide to not spend their time to make mods for it, if they are sure it won't change how the game feels and plays. I am one of them. I can't change linear story, I can't change Sole Survivor's past and redo huge chunks of the game that killed my motivation to PLAY the game. And even stuff I'm used to do is not really possible (thank you Intel for removing free havok tools).
Some other authors got their mods stolen, and decided to leave the scene, I understand that. It's not the best experience when somebody takes your hard work. Do they leave forever or just as a protest? Who knows. I am sure those who left are still making mods, just don't share them on the nexus\beth\here. Why? You can't "leave" for real, if you love your hobby (except serious personal reasons). Who knows, we might see their return once Bethesda got their platform safe and secured as much as possible.
Those authors that are still active (and it's a majority of the community atm), are very much creative (together with sexyskimpyhot stuff). Some serious mods like overhauls, weapon packs, megaquests and so on, are not yet available not because community is crap, but because they're not that easy to make. It takes many months of hard work. I bet F4 will get a lot of cool stuff this year.
Old authors are learning the new ways of modding the game, "adapting" to the changes in the CK, new authors are learning how to behave as a part of the community, following our unwritten rules\modauthor's moral codex (lmao). Users are getting used to "mod author don't give a damn what you want, he doesn't owe you a thing". Mod thieves keep stealing. Except now they're uploading it on the Bethnet to become console "heroes".


There are 3 key points in current situation that will stop the shitstorm:
1. Don't let the bad stuff effect what you love to do. Making mods? Don't listen to people and keep making them. Don't drop your hobby because "some bad stuff happened to some cool people". As long as it doesn't effect you directly and personally - keep your head cold. And hands in the CK. If you drop everything just because "there are many thieves around" - think about it again. Don't let the bastards get you down. And there are ways to protect your mods from being stolen and re-uploaded on bethnet, like F4SE requirement. They won't steal what doesn't work on xbone or ps4. And they won't fix it for consoles. Reuploading is all they can. If they can work with scripts - they will work hard on their own mods lol.
2. Authors should stop fighting with each other about stuff they cannot change. United we stand, divided we fall.
3. The hardest one: Bethnet gets a team of moderators that will keep an eye on their platform, monitoring the nexus and communicate with mod authors (because GStaff just can't handle us all at the same time lol). And hard asf DMCA takedown notice should be changed to more user-friendly way. Like "ask moderator to takedown stolen mod". Or built-in DMCA takedown button on the bethnet, that will hide the mod immediately (with some trollolol protection system of course).

But the modding community is the same. Simple as that.

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mpaz96



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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:59 pm

lukaboot wrote:
@SgtSpectre wrote:
Well I have been a member of GUN, when it was VGU, and even before that even..
alot of those people who do end up complaining about this site are as you put it entitled... I mean.. shame on us for asking them to post and become a member who actually talks to other members?

GUN doesnt ask for money all it asks for is just talk to people, meet people and modders and just a whee bit of patience and you get approved its super easy..

but people seem to be hung up on instant satisfaction, the concept of waiting is gone and that they are simply entitled to others hard work.. that is the lions share of the people who are bad mouthing the GUN right now.

On to Bethesda..

Well...I mean.. they make games that are mod-able... but buggy and often have to be fixed by the community.  The long life span of Bethesda games is solely attributed to the modding community.  Because if the modding community wasnt here, games like Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout NV, Skyrim.. would probably only be popular for about a year before they would die out.  The mods keep the game fresh, new and relevant.

Bethesda wants to capitalize on that by putting it on their consoles now.  Because then it will get the people who have hopes and dreams for games like fallout 4, that they didnt think they could realize with the Vanilla version of Fallout 4.

So basically all Bethesda is seeing is $$$, there is even Blizzard content on Bethesda.net and they havent taken that down yet... so who knows.

Bethesda is largely unresponsive to their community of gamers because they believe that even unhappy, people will buy their titles.  If their community didnt buy any more until the problems were fixed, then they would fix the problem.  Because if they dont fix the problem and still make the same money, what is the incentive for them to fix the problem?  It seems like they are not so much interested in making the games good, just instead working on making the games "Good enough" to turn a profit.

Don't see why GUN should be mentioned in you post as OP stated that this is not about GUN

OP fifth paragraph, he talks about GUN and how other people might see us.

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TheThompsonBoss



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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:28 am

Okay, I haven't finished reading everyone's comments, but I want to make it clear right now that I understand the game hasn't been out for a year. I understand that the modding tools are still relatively new. My problem is most of the mods now a days are either nude body models, vanilla weapons that have been renamed and have slightly increased stats, and skimpy armor.

I can forgive the weapon thing and maybe even the body models (Though I feel there is too much as there is), but the skimpy armor is what I'm getting at. I have a problem with this on the skyrim nexus too. I feel more people rather see boobs then actual armor. And it leaves us who plays as male characters behind in the dust.

As for the Bethesda.net stuff I can go on for hours what's wrong with the site, though I rather not. Anyway, my point is I understand FO4 is fairly new and so is the modding tools. However that doesn't mean I want to keep seeing these tiresome same old mods over and over. I have no problem with weapon or armor mods. Heck, I encourage it! But so far the only armor I'm seeing is bikinis and tight fitting clothing that reveals the female breasts.

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XiNAVRO



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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:55 am

@TheThompsonBoss wrote:
My problem is most of the mods now a days are either nude body models, vanilla weapons that have been renamed and have slightly increased stats, and skimpy armor.

I can forgive the weapon thing and maybe even the body models (Though I feel there is too much as there is), but the skimpy armor is what I'm getting at. I have a problem with this on the skyrim nexus too. I feel more people rather see boobs then actual armor. And it leaves us who plays as male characters behind in the dust.

As a person who has been around in the modding scene since the days of original DOOM, all I can say is that what you see is human nature and nothing much will change. Sure, we will see more complex and well polished mods down the road thanks to the new tools; but the mods you have issues with will never go away. And in all honesty, if you are asking why -- then you are only lying to yourself.

I for one hate most of the recent "music" and almost exclusively listen to 70s and 80s rock, jazz and some instrumental. Does it mean that I can denounce Kanye West or those who listen to Justin Bieber?

Scoffing and walking away has always been my answer. Life is too damningly short to care.

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LukaTheJawa



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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:49 am

@TheThompsonBoss wrote:
Okay, I haven't finished reading everyone's comments, but I want to make it clear right now that I understand the game hasn't been out for a year. I understand that the modding tools are still relatively new. My problem is most of the mods now a days are either nude body models, vanilla weapons that have been renamed and have slightly increased stats, and skimpy armor.

I can forgive the weapon thing and maybe even the body models (Though I feel there is too much as there is), but the skimpy armor is what I'm getting at. I have a problem with this on the skyrim nexus too. I feel more people rather see boobs then actual armor. And it leaves us who plays as male characters behind in the dust.

As for the Bethesda.net stuff I can go on for hours what's wrong with the site, though I rather not. Anyway, my point is I understand FO4 is fairly new and so is the modding tools. However that doesn't mean I want to keep seeing these tiresome same old mods over and over. I have no problem with weapon or armor mods. Heck, I encourage it! But so far the only armor I'm seeing is bikinis and tight fitting clothing that reveals the female breasts.

Stop saying that the skyrim nexus is all skimpy armors , pleas look at the top files on nexus and rethink this claim

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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:26 pm

@lukaboot

what he means is a majority of skyrim armors are female and skimpy which is true if you go to skyrims recent files its either skimpily dressed follower mods or a skimpy armor set, the number of male armors is very limited especially if you have been playing for years so i understand where he's coming from, a very small percentage of all armor mods are male but they rank above some of the most endorsed Smile

and i used immersive armors for my male armors as its in my opinion one of the best armor mods around Smile
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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:35 pm

@FoVet20 wrote:
@lukaboot

what he means is a majority of skyrim armors are female and skimpy which is true if you go to skyrims recent files its either skimpily dressed follower mods or a skimpy armor set, the number of male armors is very limited especially if you have been playing for years so i understand where he's coming from, a  very small percentage of all armor mods are male but they rank above some of the most endorsed Smile

and i used immersive armors for my male armors as its in my opinion one of the best armor mods around Smile

No it was not that he was complaining about armors specifically , in the beginning he was complaining about ALL THE MODS which is a untrue statement , I never claimed that female armors are not dominating.

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SomeKid123



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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:48 pm

I agree man i'm so fucking tired of seeing titty mods like go out and live, see some real titties don't just stare at a game that because of your mod order has no real depth now just titties. but I don't know I think that my post might offend or make some people mad and this is not my intent however I think I, like you, just need to get my opinion out there.
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BobaSauro



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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:18 pm

well, to be honest, if we were to argue about the amount of tits on those mods, we would get into misoginy discussion, as all that obsession with asses and boobs come from, and only lead to more, women objectification, perpetuating this shitty culture that we have.

but yeah, i totally agree with you on this department, enough of "sexy" mods already.

tough i disagree that those are the only mods to come out, or that the modding community is doomed. we need to give more time to make those statements.. i mean, fo4 geck is out for a couple months only...

i'm not a modder myself, so it may be out of place for me to share my toughts here, asn i can't really relate to this frustration, especially bethesda's way of handling those thefts.

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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:40 pm

@SomeKid123 wrote:
I agree man i'm so fucking tired of seeing titty mods like go out and live, see some real titties don't just stare at a game that because of your mod order has no real depth now just titties. but I don't know I think that my post might offend or make some people mad and this is not my intent however I think I, like you, just need to get my opinion out there.

Nah man GoodPost! don't worry

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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:29 am

Honestly, I think the easy solution is just "whatever". The guys making skimpy mods aren't preventing the other modders from creating, and the other modders are still shooting to the top instead of the sexual ones. I stopped giving a shit after a couple months on skyrim and I realized I don't even see sexual stuff when I look for quality only mods (Most endorsed, etc.).
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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:42 am

For me it solely depends on the mod.

If it is just straps and a few pieces of cloth holding the outfit together, a crop top or even those horrific low cut jean outfits, then hell no. THAT is the stuff I am tired of seeing.

However if the outfit is semi skin tight or if the outfit has a basic t-shirt that supports the armor add ons then I don't really care. The closest I ever really get to as one may call "skimpy" is the semi skin tight (little tighter than BoS undersuits) under armors but even then I have a crap load of armor on over it usually or the suit has armor already on it.

As for weapon mods though.. people uploading random guns that change their stats are pretty pointless. I rather have a bunch of random retextures that may not be that good because that is even where I started and in general it's just a better way to know the GECK (even then you don't have to upload it). Gotta start somewhere though I suppose.

In the end though it is the internet and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and further more can play their games the way they want or even upload mods that they want (to an extent) - even if we disagree.

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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:57 am

People will always be selfish, people will always hate what others do or don't do, nothing can change that. People are free to rant to, sometimes we need to let it all out. For anyone that cares here is my two cents.

I feel like its progressing faster then either NV & Skyrim, But its still the early days.

There is plenty of hand-crafted or ported model mods out there in Nexus and GUN, It is a a shame that alot of modders have left the scene but that is their own decision. Alot of modders from FO3 didn't cross into NV and likewise from Oblivion into Skyrim ... but new modders appeared to either continue their work or create a brand new mod that we've come to love.

Like its been said before the modding scene is still in new, FO3, NV, Oblivion, Skyrim didn't get their best stuff until well after the game has "passed" and the new game was on the horizon or already out, even now amazing things are being done with those old games like "Frontier" for NV. FO4 hasn't even gotten its final DLC, I think we will be seeing some incredible things being done with FO4 but it'll take a lot of time. FO4 changed alot internally and modders have to relearn it again.
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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:04 am

The skimpy mods on the nexus don't do anything for me personally, but I can't blame the people who want to have a wasteland barbie either. It's harmless fun after all. Something which does mildly bother me, however, is the Nexus image section. It has no search functions to speak of, which really makes it little more than an endless slideshow of aforementioned wasteland barbies.

I use the picture section to look for WIP shots of upcoming and interesting mods, and they are drowned out by the endless images of people's characters. It would be so nice if they had a section for mod work and one for characters posing. Even better, if they had the same categories as mods, you might actually be able to find stuff that interests you. Then you'd be able to go and see what people are working on but haven't uploaded yet. Mean and opinionated as it might sound, once you've seen one almost-naked woman posing or pointing a gun at the camera, you've pretty much seen them all.
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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:28 am

I guess my problem with the skimpy armor deal is it was not like this originally. When I started modding I saw endless cool mods. In fact the old Gamespot series "Top 5 Skyrim mods of the week" really got me interested in the modding community as a whole. I got to the point where everytime I was about to click on the Skyrim nexus I would find myself very excited. However now it's just the same old skimpy clothing.

Do people have the right to make and use those kinds of armors? Of course! I'm not saying we should band those type of mods. My whole point with this post is that the Skyrim nexus use to have a variety, but now it's the same type of mods over and over. And as a guy who only plays male characters it frankly sucks. It's like I said. If you wanna watch boobs then turn on some porn. I don't see how anyone can play the game like this, but fair enough I guess it's what everyone demands. Like I said though, it wasn't always like this.

As for the FO4 nexus, I'm just getting a little concerned because we're starting to see more and more mods like that. But to be fair I guess I should give it more time and there have been some cool mods that have come out already.


@lukaboot Fair enough. You're right. I shouldn't say ALL mods on the Skyrim Nexus are just skimpy armors, but at the same time the vast majority of the latest mods are pretty much skimpy armors or female companions with skimpy armor and that is what I'm getting sick of.

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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:55 am

@TheThompsonBoss
If you want exclusively interesting mods, I can recommend a splendid (Japanese) Fallout 4 mod review blog.
The address is http://fallout4.blog.jp/

It's interesting because the owner reviews mods (primarily from the nexus) which he finds interesting and provides links to their respective pages. He takes great quality images that are often really creative and sometimes digs out hidden gems that don't get much coverage from the Nexus itself, it's a real work of passion and professionally done.

I don't speak a word of Japanese but the images speak for themselves (and you can always use an online translator). I usually check the blog before I check the nexus. Maybe you'll like it.


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PostSubject: Re: "What happened to the modding community?" Rant    Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:33 am

@Waffenbaum Thanks of the tip, my friend! Smile Translating the site should be no problem. I already have an online translator which I use for Modgames. I'll be sure to check out this site at once!

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