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 What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War

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ImpKing64

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PostSubject: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:14 pm

I want to open up this discussion because Disney really pisses me off. Really. I'd just olike to state that I am a massive Star Wars fan. I'm not just into the movies and clone wars, but I have a fair amount of Knowledge about everything else in the Expanded Universe; I love the Old Republic (aas I'm sure most Star Wars fans do), the begininngs of the Jedi Order, Ajunta Pall, rise of the Dark Jedi, Cold War, Clone Wars, Rebellion VS Empire (and the variants of this), The Vong, Caedus, Lumiya, Katar - all of them!! They are all pretty great characters and they reflect the intricacy of the EU and the effort and talent the writers put in to it.

I am not a casual SW fan, I've read the comics, novels, audiobooks and other things.

The only decent movie, IMO, that Disney has produed in Episode 7, and that's probably because it was a soft-reboot; there were multiple similarities between the characters and the plots of ANH and TFA, which essentially allowed viewers to perceive TFA as a watered down ANH. Disney may have played it safe, which may be the reason for why I like it - of course I didn't want a soft-reboot, but I think that's the best "writing" Disney will produce (probably until Jon Favreau's "The Mandalorian", which I'm oddly excited for.)

Disney's management of Star Wars is controversial. I know there are many people who love/like what Disney has done, and they like the new movies and the wiping away of the EU, and to that I say "Good. I wish I had that mindset." But I don't. Because so much of what was good about Star Wars is now non-canon, and the Last Jedi was . . . 'arguably' bad.

I know there are many people that are discontent with Disney's management, and to them I want to know what they're irritated most by.

And to those who'd argue against me, please, go ahead. I'd love to hear opinions about this, and perhaps become more open-minded.


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Christopher Dewan

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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:23 am

To me the Last Jedi felt really horrible.

They killed off Luke Skywalker, which ticked off Mark Hamill. Luke should've been kept around. That one scene where Leia nearly died and somehow got back into the ship was really weird to me. Snoke's death to me makes me think, how can two rookies take out a Sith Lord.

Episode 7 was okay didn't disappoint me.

Most of my friends told me that the Solo movie was bad, so I decided not to watch it at the local movie theater.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:46 am

Missed potential -
100 percent, missed potential.
Honestly, there are very few instances of me approaching someone's creative body of work and saying '*I* could have done this better', but Disney's star wars is one of them. It really, really shows how little the people behind the franchise really bothered to research in the conception of this whole new escapade into a galaxy far, far away.

I've never cared about canon, so I'll just stick with what I like - But ee-gads... To just, look at all the wasted potential across both major episodes (I actually quite like what was done with Rogue One) it really sucks. You've got free creative reign on the most expansive, imaginative sci fi universe on earth - And this is what you decide to come up with?

About the most vanilla star wars story you could think of? Lucas took risks, went out of his way to tell a different story with every outing... But this new stuff just feels... Soulless, like someone went in and did the bare minimum on their assignment without going any further than they absolutely had to.

Such a waste.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:30 pm

I think Disney failed at star wars, and i think the other movies failed at star wars, only star wars i felt was awesome was the original 3, star wars trilogy babehhh, the rest? pure garbage, them droids... christ closed eyes smile tad tipsy to explain the whys, i think we all know the whys, but anything after the original 3 is just ugh... i cant even describe the, jurassic park for +2's maybe, thats just meee

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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:53 am

it pains me to talk about this because I am a huge Star Wars and Marvel fan, and I want nothing more to do with either franchise while they are owned by Disney. I didn't hate the last Jedi but it was far from good, but my main issue is what Disney did to James Gunn. they fucked the man over, who took a very obscure comic and turned into one of their main properties, all because of a tweet and they didn't want bad publicity while they closed the deal with Fox. So Star Wars will never flourish under Disney because corporate and shareholder interests will trump the actual product every fucking time. I can't stay invested in my once beloved franchises knowing that.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:20 pm

The one thing I hate that Disney has done to Star Wars is that they never understood nor cared about the legacy of George Lucas's creation. The story isn't some simple sci-fi action adventure story, it's a deep story of love, family, forgiveness and the greater good.

It was the story of Anakin and Luke Skywalker. Anakin, blinded by love and fuelled by hate, turned to the Dark Side of the Force to prevent Padme's death and became Darth Vader. He betrayed everyone, the Jedi, the republic, Obi Wan and even Padme. He lost everything. When he became a slave to Darth Sidious, he thought there was nothing for him except to bring order to the galaxy as he still believed in that. It was only his son that made him realise there was still good in him. He failed Padme but he was not going let his son die by the hands of Sidious. It was a beautiful tale of redemption and forgiveness.
This is what's missing from the sequel trilogy. Everything Luke fought for, the Empire, the Sith, was for nothing as a greater force came and wiped out the Jedi again and the galaxy is at war a third time. Luke learned not to become his father, one of the themes of Star Wars is to learn from the past to not be doomed to repeat it. Luke apparently learned nothing, the New Republic learned nothing when they became a fascist empire. It was as if everything restarted and everything is back to the state of A New Hope, only that the First Order is completely stupid.

This is coming from someone who cares more about the films than the games and the books as I believe Stars Wars, as it's presented, is best viewed in film format. Like you don't read a script for a theatre production, you watch the actors perform on the stage. George Lucas's Star Wars has impacted me greatly and I enjoyed watching them so much. Disney's take is so shallow and dull. They never understood them and thought of making them just simple sci-fi films with flying spaceships, holograms and space-battles with a few Star Wars stuff like lightsabers. By doing so, they lost the charm and failed to add anything to the Star Wars mythos. It also wasn't just missing the point as well, the writing is horrible, especially The Last Jedi's. Oh my god, that film was horrible.

They should have listened to Lucas but Lucas should have been smarter to not give Disney his franchise.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:25 pm

@RangerGUN Tbf i think Lucas stopped understanding when he started adding CGI to the classics and kept releasing them, mawr gold i need muh more gald!

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celtic_spike

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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:57 pm

@RangerGUN wrote:
Everything Luke fought for, the Empire, the Sith, was for nothing as a greater force came and wiped out the Jedi again and the galaxy is at war a third time.

this was one of the biggest missteps with the new Trilogy IMO. History does repeat itself and there was always going to be some new evil in the Galaxy that rose from the ashes of the Empire but to have it become as big, if not bigger, than the empire and then start the new trilogy with the first order in control of galaxy was fucking stupid. As you say, it completely shits all over the original films. imagine being a kid now who watches the original trilogy and then watches TFA. they will think Return of the Jedi meant nothing.


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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:11 pm

Making the EU not canon.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:12 pm

Making the EU not canon.

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ImpKing64

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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:19 pm

@celtic_spike wrote:
@RangerGUN wrote:
Everything Luke fought for, the Empire, the Sith, was for nothing as a greater force came and wiped out the Jedi again and the galaxy is at war a third time.

this was one of the biggest missteps with the new Trilogy IMO. History does repeat itself and there was always going to be some new evil in the Galaxy that rose from the ashes of the Empire but to have it become as big, if not bigger, than the empire and then start the new trilogy with the first order in control of galaxy was fucking stupid. As you say, it completely shits all over the original films. imagine being a kid now who watches the original trilogy and then watches TFA. they will think Return of the Jedi meant nothing.


I definitely agree with this. When they announced SW Episode 7 back in 2012, I was yong and very, very excited. But when I realised Disney, of all companies had bought what helped in making my childhood enjoyable, I was nervous. Anxious. Scared. Then I started to genuinely think that they'd make some duck-tales type movie in which Mickey Mouse would be Luke.

However, when they released the first ever trailer/teaser, we saw a glimpse of the Knights of Ren. Obviously they take heavy inspiration from Revan, and because of this I thought that somehow Revan had been resurrected or something and was now a new threat to the galaxy (similar to SWTOR's Shadow of Revan storyline, which IMO was AMAZING! I really wanted SWTOR as a single player RPG rather than an MMO, because the story-telling is so rich and interesting; it's the first MMORPG game I played and may be the last.)

However, I thought that instead of Snoke and his goons, keep in line with Lucas' canon and start Episode 7 with rumours of invasion by the Vong, or Krayt, or Lumiya. I don't know! Either one of them would have been fine! Just . . . just not Snoke . . . The Yuuzhan Vong are fantastic. Lumiya is fantastic. Krayt is fantastic. The One Sith are fantastic. So many fantastic storylines they could have reimagined on the big screen. If Lucas stayed on the projects, and many of the older writers, and if they had kept it more mature and emotive than Ep 7, it would have deserved its >$1,000,000,000.

It might be weird but I've always wanted to see Scorcese direct a Star Wars movie. He would inevitably add some gangsta pitash and a criminally smooth tone. Just imagine Scorcese directing a movie about Canderous Ordo! I would love it! But, unfortunately, it would not happen. Or, Mark Hamil himself could have directed, because he has stated in interest in directing and producing, so it would be fitting.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:56 am

I'm just so happy that Lucas isn't around to shit on it anymore that my standards aren't all that picky anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:29 am

Honestly, just about everything. Not even trying to jump on the band wagon. They just really did do a lot of shit I hated. The only thing I think that was good was Kylo ren....for the first half of his first movie. Once he takes off his helmet, he starts going down. Not that the action of taking off his helmet was the bad part, it's just when his character started to decline for me.

Disney's problem was/is that they are too afraid to try anything new and keep trying to redo things that have been successful before. So that's why 7 was essentially A New Hope 2.0. They pretty much rehashed everything in it, but changed a few things here and there. It was one of the biggest criticisms of the movie. How did they handle it in the sequel? They pretty much doubled down on it, but tried to hide it.

TLJ was pretty much Empire strikes back in reverse, ending with a rehash of the ending of Return of the Jedi. Think about it. ESB starts off on a snow/white planet fighting off the Empire and their AT-ATs. They use the speeders they have to take them out. When the Empire inevitably destroys the generator, Vader sees the Falcon fly away. Then chase the remaining rebels into space.

How does TLJ start off? With a space battle and being chased by the First Order to the salt/white planet where they try fighting off the FO and their totally-not AT-ATs(that are totally different because now they are darker and more evil looking). They fail in their attempt and manage to fly away as Kylo watches. I feel I don't need to explain the similarities between the Snoke, Kylo, Rey scene and the Emperor, Vader, and Luke scene. That one is just obvious.

What I hate most is how they handled the characters. Finn, Kylo, and Poe were the only ones I saw any value in because they had some development. The rest were just flat. The main character, Rey, is probably the biggest Mary Sue I have ever seen in any media. She does not struggle to do anything for more than a few seconds. She never flew a ship, but someone manages to pilot the Falcon better than Han ever could and fix problems in it that Han couldn't figure out despite him basically living in the ship for decades and fixing it himself? She masters the force only after just learning of its existence a mere few hours earlier and manages to kick Kylo's ass. She just was overpowered for no actual reason. She had so much skill for no real reason and as a result she never struggled. She just was perfect at everything she did.

A lot of people like to compare this to Anakin and say Anakin was just as overpowered or compare it to Luke and say he was just as overpowered too. Those who do say that clearly weren't paying attention. Anakin had to train for about 10 years to do what he was able to do in AOTC. What was the result of 10 years of training? He could do fancy force tricks, but got his ass handed to him by Dooku and never actually won a fight in the whole movie. Fast forward 3 years to ROTS. He trained more and was more adept. What was the result? Still struggled with all his encounters only just barely beating Dooku(who I think planned to be captured which explains his shock that Palpatine ordered him to kill him). End of the movie? Gets beaten by Obi-Wan.

Now for Luke. Trained a few days or so with Obi-Wan just learning the basics. Due to his relation to Vader, he had a strong connection to the force, but that didn't mean he could master anything easier. All he manages to accomplish is a really lucky shot to blow up the Death Star, which he stated he had been pretty much been practicing a similar manuever on Tattooine for years in a ship very similar to the X-Wing so he had much experience as a pilot. Fast forward about 3 years. He's trained on his own a bit, but without anyone to really teach him or have anything to learn from like a holocron, he has to just figure things out on his own. So naturally he doesn't get far. He's barely able to pull his lightsaber out of the snow. He then goes to train with Yoda for about a few months or so. He gets an extre training regiment that's been planned out by Yoda years in advance to be as efficient as possible. He learns quite a bit in that time, but leaves early to save his friends. The result of all that time and training? He fights Vader and loses badly.

Before anyone says "well he held his own against Vader a long time", I'd remind them that Vader was trying to capture him alive, not kill him. That was the whole point of the trap. Vader was just on the defensive until he failed to freeze Luke. That's when he started to go on the offensive and you can clearly see the shift as Luke starts to struggle to keep on his own feet against Vader, who still doesn't want to kill him so he's holding back. He gets his hand lobbed off. Years of practice by himself and extreme training for a few months. Results in him failing.

Fast forward about a year and he's trained more by himself. He learned a lot from Yoda so he wasn't just learning from nothing like how he did prior to training with Yoda. He knew the basics and intermediates so all he did was train with what he learned. He got significantly better. The result of all those years of training? He still struggled against Vader, almost lost, and just barely won, only being saved by his father before he was killed.

Now look at Rey. She never flew a ship in her life, but knows how to pilot the Falcon perfectly and beats highly trained TIE Pilots. Then she knows how to fix the Falcon. People say "Well she's been taking ships apart her whole life!" well to those people I'd invite them to take apart a car and then put it back together and see how that works. Taking something apart is relatively easy. Fixing things is another story. She later picks up Luke's old lightsaber and somehow learns the force. She masters the mind trick in less than 30 seconds despite never once even witnessing it. She masters force telekenisis and pulls the lightsaber with more force than Kylo could. About a few hours later, she arrives at Luke's island. She swings the saber at a rock a few times for about 10 seconds, sits on a rock for a grand total of about 15 seconds, then goes for a swim into a cave where she looks at an illusion. That all somehow makes her even more powerful than before and she manages to take on multiple highly trained guards.

The only thing these three characters have in common is that they are powerful. However, being powerful is very much not the same as being skilled. Anakin and Luke were both very powerful, but their power meant nothing when they never learned to use it. Rey on the other hand, managed to acquire all these skills to go with her powers within a few seconds.

Another thing I hate is how they treated the old cast. They split Han and Leia up and it felt wrong since they spent 3 whole movies working up to their love. Feels wrong to just write it out off-screen. Han was a highly respected rebellion general. Why the hell would he be resorting to smuggling after he basically saved the galaxy? Leia was handled a little better, but she just stood around not doing too much. Her force Mary Poppins in TLJ was just bad. The thing is that it could have been could. At first, I thought it was cool that she had force powers. In the old canon, she became a Jedi for a while. The problem with this was that they used it to make her defy certain death somehow unconsciously, and then later said she never actually had any training in the force. So she managed to use the force to survive in the vacuum of space after having an explosion happen right next to her....but never actually learned how to use it. I mean, if you want to say it's an inert ability, why didn't Luke get that when he fought Vader for the first time? Surely he could have magically gained powers to save his hand right? 3PO was just...there. Never said much or did anything. R2 was also just replaced. Chewie was also just there. Lando was.....just forgotten? Luke was the biggest mistake of all. They completely ruined his character. He spent a whole movie refusing to give up on his father once he learned his identity. Everyone expected him to kill him. Obi-Wan, Yoda, the Rebellion, and even the Emperor. They all deemed him too far gone to be saved. He refused to give up and refused to kill him. He gave into his anger a little and saw the damage he did while under the influence of the Dark Side. He got scared of what he almost did and then threw down his lightsaber in defiance, refusing to kill his father. It turned out he was right all along and his father redeemed himself by sacrificing his life to save Luke and kill the Emperor. Luke's determination that his father, one of the most evil people out there, could be redeemed ended up proving his philosophy.

Fast forward to nu Luke. His nephew has some dark thoughts in his mind:
"lol better kill him in his sleep"
They made Luke fall so far. He went from never giving up on one of the most evil people in the galaxy to trying to murder his nephew because he sensed he was troubled. Then they made it even worse by having him just shut off his force and hide away as the galaxy went to shit. He just didn't care. He didn't even care that Han had died. He didn't even react to Chewie at all. Just made him an asshole hermit who tried to kill his nephew.

I could go on, but these are my main issues with the movies. Disney really screwed Star Wars.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:42 pm

Whatever @Wertologist said. Disney is good at making their kid shows of princesses and talking animals that occasional burst out into song but when it comes to a franchise that is about war, death, betrayal and other dark themes - not very so. The only thing that ticks me off is the fact that Disney made the Extended Universe non-canon. The EU was by far the best continued story that I had ever read with characters like Mara Jade, the Solo kids and the Yuuzhang Vong.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:58 pm

Not much really.

I thought Force Awakens was boring, a shot for shot remake of New Hope.

On the other hand I thought Last Jedi was fantastic. It was all about subverting expectations which honestly, for a lot of people I think was the biggest issue. A lot of people think they know star war's inside and out, so to go against the formula like that really pissed them off. I enjoyed the break from the dynamic, especially after Force Awakens paint by numbers BS. It was the last thing I was expecting to kill off Snoke. That was kind of a shock, not like Han Solo dying, because lets be honest, Harrison Ford doesn't give a fuck about this nerd shit. Star Wars has dark themes, but honestly, the original trilogy isn't dark. It never really gets darker than an Ewok seeing his pal get shot. Last Jedi had Luke find all his apprentices killed by his nephew. That's pretty dark compared to fluffy animal deaths.

Then there's Luke. "Luke isn't a Jedi badass". No, he isn't. There wouldn't be a film series if he were. He could just one tap snoke and the first order and everyone would live happily ever after. The Russo's did an interview the other day where they spoke about Superman and why he's so difficult to adapt. It's because he's good at most everything and has very few flaws. Flaws build character and make people interesting. What happened to Luke was necessary to make the story work. You may not like it, and it might not seem like the natural outcome of where Luke was at the end of RotJ, but that's because RotJ wasn't written to have a sequel. If it were up to me, the series would have ended after 3 films. Maybe the spin off games like Academy and KOTOR that don't focus on the main cast would still happen, but honestly, sequels and prequels to the main story were unnecessary. They feel jarring because the original films weren't made with them in mind. You're trying to edit characters in order to fit them into new character arcs.

I thought it was good. Not the best star wars. Empire is the best star wars. Not even in the top 3. But it was better than the prequels.

Then people complain about Rey and mary sues which I'm not going to argue but really, Luke Skywalker is a mary sue as well, so it feels a redundant argument to me. I feel like they'll explain it as her feeding off a force bond with Kylo since each time she does some new force shit, it immediately follows interaction with him. They stole quite a bit of stuff from KOTOR II, y'know?

Not saying there's no dumb shit. Captain Phasma exists just to sell toys and that princess Leia space scene is fucking stupid fan service for the people who wanted to see Leia do force stuff, but then again, Bobba Fett was created to sell toys, and including his dad in the prequels was pure fan service that no one asked for.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:55 pm

I don't hate most of it, I like it all a lot actually, with the exception of The Last Jedi. I'm all for strong female leads, I think it's important for little girls to see that they can be badass as much as little boys. However I despise Rey and Holdo, and I hold Rose in pretty low regard.

Holdo because it should've been Ackbar. Imagine it, he prank calls Hux, and says "Do you know what this is? It's a trap" boom hyperspace ram, everyone claps. Yes I stole that from somewhere idk where. And she's generally incompetent. Give little girls a leadership role model who's good at her fucking job, Leia was good for that, Holdo was just...ugh.

Rey being a great pilot? That's fine, all the main protagonists have been great pilots. Her affinity for the force is offputting but Anakin was space-Jesus so this isn't that at least. What bugs me is her blade skills. Every other major protagonist including the literal "chosen one" got absolutely shit on in their first major on screen saber duel, and in Anakin's case that was after he'd had years of extensive Jedi training. Rey wipes the floor with Kylo's face and later beats fucking Luke, it's stupid and she'd have been better served losing and having to learn from it. I don't count Kylo not running off with her to make Reylo canon as a real loss. For us or her. It also doesn't help that she honestly comes off as dry as desert. It's also stupid that I can't really talk about that point without it turning into me somehow being sexist in spite of the fact I'd call at the same OP bullshit if it were a male character.

That said I adored Rouge One, liked Force Awakens and Solo well enough, enjoyed Rebels from what I've watched, and I'm hyped as hell for The Mandalorian.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:47 am

@IRORIEH How was Luke a Mary Sue? Everything he did, he had to train and practice for years to do and he still struggled. He's powerful and skilled. That doesn't make you a Mary Sue. It makes you a Mary Sue if there is no rational reason to having those traits. He has reason to be powerful due to him being the son of the Chosen One who was born of the force and destined to bring balance to it. He has reason for the skills because he piloted a ship just like an X-Wing for years and was dubbed one of the best pilots on the planet. All his force skill came at an extremely slow crawl and only just barely let him beat Vader in their second fight(after losing horribly in the first to Vader who was holding back).
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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:03 pm

@Wertologist wrote:
@IRORIEH How was Luke a Mary Sue? Everything he did, he had to train and practice for years to do and he still struggled. He's powerful and skilled. That doesn't make you a Mary Sue. It makes you a Mary Sue if there is no rational reason to having those traits. He has reason to be powerful due to him being the son of the Chosen One who was born of the force and destined to bring balance to it. He has reason for the skills because he piloted a ship just like an X-Wing for years and was dubbed one of the best pilots on the planet. All his force skill came at an extremely slow crawl and only just barely let him beat Vader in their second fight(after losing horribly in the first to Vader who was holding back).

Luke can be argued to have been a Mary Sue because his training was unusually short. The fact that he is the son of the Chosen One (or as others will argue, he IS the Chosen One), or if he is naturally talented at many things or whatever doesn't really excuse the fact that his Jedi training was only for a handful of years - this is one of the bigger plot holes in Star Wars, and as much as I love the OT and SW in general, there are many of them.

By sticking to just the OT, Luke, without any training in the Force beforehand (that we see during the movies), Luke is able to use the force to shoot a proton torpedo into the Death Star's exhaust port.

Luke started his formal training in the beginning of Empire, with Yoda, which is set in around 3 A.B.Y., so there's a three year difference between ANH and Empire. The time Luke spent training with Yoda is basically undetermined; there are canon and professional sources claiming he was training for one week, to a few weeks, to many months. He would have trained no longer for 6 months. So let's go with that (even though it's probably much less, maybe a month or so.) Luke training with Yoda for that amount of time wouldn't make him that proficient in the force; he didn't train for very long so technically he shouldn't have mastered anything. He should only have had a basic grasp on the force. Hundreds of thousands of Jedi took decades to simply become proficient in the force, such as Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, Revan, Satele Shan, and Anakin himself.

After this, he loses to Vader on Cloud City. Obvious isn't it? Vader went easy. If Vader wanted to do harm, Luke would be dead in seconds.

There is at least a years' gap between Empire and Return of the Jedi. So, this gives Luke a year of training, and many adventures to go on. He would have become better, but he shouldn't have become amazing. Like I said, it takes decades for Jedi to become simply proficient. After a year, he is able to take on coompanies of mercenarie,s bounty hunters, Stormtroopers and others. In Return of the Jedi, he is able to take on Vader again (there are many that say Vader was trying to bring pain, because pain leads to anger and yada yada.) Luke holds his own.

Keep in mind that Luke has faced many enemies that should have been able to kill him on a moderately easy level.

Then Luke wins and end of the trilogy.

My point is that Luke is made out to be much more powerful and tougher than he actually is, or rather, actually should be. Going with SW logic and canon, there should have been no way Luke was AT ALL ready to lead the Jedi; he should have been far to weak and far less wise.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:21 am

@ImpKing64 wrote:

By sticking to just the OT, Luke, without any training in the Force beforehand (that we see during the movies), Luke is able to use the force to shoot a proton torpedo into the Death Star's exhaust port.

I should point out that this isn't an impossible target to hit without the force as the Rebels go at it without even expecting Luke to fire the killing blow, nor do they really know about hi force sensitivity.

One other thing of note is that Luke has been shooting small targets at high speeds for a large portion of his life. "I used to bullseye wamprats in my T-16" = Shooting a dog while going at full speed in a fighter jet.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you hate about what Disney has done to Star War   Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:46 pm

@IIHawkerII wrote:
@ImpKing64 wrote:

By sticking to just the OT, Luke, without any training in the Force beforehand (that we see during the movies), Luke is able to use the force to shoot a proton torpedo into the Death Star's exhaust port.

I should point out that this isn't an impossible target to hit without the force as the Rebels go at it without even expecting Luke to fire the killing blow, nor do they really know about hi force sensitivity.

One other thing of note is that Luke has been shooting small targets at high speeds for a large portion of his life. "I used to bullseye wamprats in my T-16" = Shooting a dog while going at full speed in a fighter jet.

Yeah, it's not impossible but highly unlikely. The other rebels were using automated targeting systems, which were the primary things that ensured a torpedo would hit the target. Luke didn't use that, just the force, and in the ANH we don't see Luke using the force so effectively before this specific scene.

Also true. It definitely proves Luke has some good natural talents and might be a quick learner, and he is an accurate and precise shot. Better than most. I do see how this is comparable to Luke shooting through the exhaust point. Now I'm not 100% sure about this, but Luke was flying in a T-65B X0-Wing, of which variant I have no clue. The max speed of a T-16 was 1,200 KM/H whilst the maximum *atmospheric* speed of a T-65B was 1,050 KM/H, but that's just in an atmosphere (I think) so Luke ust have been flying >1,050 KM/H and probably over 1,200 KM/H, so I do see your logic here. It's fair enough but in spite of Luke's experience, it eventually narrows doen to the plot and luck. After all, Star Wars was never meant to be realistic in the first place. But continuity and maintaining canon matters, which the latest movies disregard irritatingly.
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