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 How Obsidian ruined Fallout.

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onowrouzi

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PostSubject: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 9:03 pm

... By setting the bar sooooo high. [sorry for the click bait.]

Let's be honest. Bethesda has never been known for their story or attention to detail. The only reason their games got so much attention is the insane amount of content modders have added to the half baked base games.

Now do NOT take this as a slam to Bethesda. The fact that they set up such a modular framework and set up an engine (flaws and all) that gives such freedom to those who know what to do with it, it's all super impressive.

But Obsidian took what they did, gave it thought and consideration and created a masterpiece of first person rpg,  with an emphasis on rpg.... and created something that Bethesda could never live up to.

Now does Bethesda make good games? Yes. But do they make games that live up to our current expectations? Sadly, no. But let's face it. That is a pretty tall order.

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dazzerfong

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 9:27 pm

@onowrouzi: Well, I hate to disagree there. FNV's story did not engage me at all: there was zero emotional element in it. Hell, I can't even remember any of the companion's names nor any important characters (besides the one you kill in bed if you have Black Widow).

The beauty of FNV is that gives the character a 'blank slate' on to role play. However, anything beyond that, and I'll return to Bethesda's creations.

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PROROOK363

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 9:36 pm

Hahaha I totally thought this was the post that would break the community and start an all out war.

Honestly though, New Vegas DLC is what saved the game, not the actually base game. It added depth to the game, and expanded the lore of an already nolstalgic aspect of the Fallout genre which is why IT WORKED. As for Fallout 3 though...I loved Fallout 3. It was perfectly plotted, and though it deviated from certain lore in the original fandom, held its own nicely.

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Tactical308

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 9:53 pm

God I miss New Vegas. It was the first fallout I played and got me hooked.  Especially the stellar dlc. Don't get me wrong Fallout 3 and 4 are both great, and I actually prefer the emotion they can create because let's be honest, the base New Vegas had barely any emotional attachment excluding companion stories. (My wife is dead *sulks*) But New Vegas was something else, and it's a shame obsidian wasn't able to bring it to it's fullest potential due to the time constraints. I don't know if the the tale of two wastelands team will decide to bring both New Vegas and Fallout 3 to 4's engine, but if no one does, I will be kinda sad.  Can you imagine seeing the Divide or Sierra Madre in a larger than life form? Or walking through  freeside with updated models and textures? That'd be an ungodly amount of work though.

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maybenexttime

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 10:15 pm

I think if Obsidian had more time for NV they would have made a much more interesting story. I thought they did a wonderful job with the amount of time given. So I wouldn't mind seeing a Fallout game from them again.

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aarius

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 10:30 pm

@maybenexttime I'll have to agree with you there if Obsidian had more time New Vegas would have been way better than it already is but this topic shouldn't be titled "How Obsidian ruined Fallout." it should be "How Bethesda ruined Fallout 4." In my opinion they could have done better with all the time they had to develop it


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Tactical308

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 10:30 pm

@maybenexttime I completely agree, especially one that expanded lore on the legion and utilized more van buren ideas. Although they have expressed interest in new orleans and I wouldn't mind seeing some mutant crocs and crayfish

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onowrouzi

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 10:46 pm

@dazzerfong The thing about New Vegas was that it had a main story that was just engaging enough to navigate you through the world space, a world space that felt completely connected and had consequences and couldn't care less about the player until he or she did something to alter it... Which they actually could.

So FO3 and FO4 had a personal story that catered to the player. Some people like that. I do also from time to time. But the games that tend to stick around usually have more complexity.

Overall this thread is catering to those who preferred those aspects of New Vegas, but I don't mean to diminish anyone's enjoyment of the other games.

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thegreataimbottio

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 10:50 pm

Not going to lie, a little bit of blood boiled for me just by seeing the name of the thread. But I totally agree with you 110%. Bethesda couldn't create an engaging story if Todd Howard's life depended on it. It's crazy how in just year Obsidian managed to create what is in my opinion, the best game in the franchise. Bethesda doesn't understand what makes Fallout Fallout and ruined the franchise and turned it into a heavily casualized mess designed do tell copies. It really pisses me off what Bethesda did to Fallout. Even more how they screwed over Obsidian because of NV. They only gave them a year which basically robbed players of a fleshed out Caesar's Legion and tons off more cut content. They also prevented Obsidian from getting a bonus because NV only got an 84 on Metacritic rather than an 85. Don't forget that a lot of negative reviews were because of glitches due to BETHESDA's crappy engine that Obsidian had to learn and use. The fact that NV was as good as it was is truly a miracle partially due to the fact that a ton of Obsidian at the time of development of NV had a ton of employees that had a history of making Fallout games before Interplay went under. Unlike Bethesda who's workers don't have any history with the franchise other than casualizing it.

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Tactical308

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 11:00 pm

@thegreataimbottio I enjoy bethesda fallouts, but I agree that they don't understand what makes fallout, well fallout. Obsidian was cheated out of their chance at making a new fallout game, and even then they were successful, because they have fallout in their blood. I sincerely hope they can do another.

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kingswat

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 11:05 pm

Yeah personally i disagree with this as well, there were parts of new vegas i liked but story wise i prefer fallout 3, i think instead of doing separate games they should just group up and make fallout better in all ways instead of little upgrades.
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rojok2

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 11:06 pm

Bethesda games are amusing in a different way from Obsidian games. Obsidian does the story much better but there's something endearing about Bethesda and their games.
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Abazor

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 11:37 pm

@PROROOK363 wrote:
Hahaha I totally thought this was the post that would break the community and start an all out war.

Honestly though, New Vegas DLC is what saved the game, not the actually base game. It added depth to the game, and expanded the lore of an already nolstalgic aspect of the Fallout genre which is why IT WORKED. As for Fallout 3 though...I loved Fallout 3. It was perfectly plotted, and though it deviated from certain lore in the original fandom, held its own nicely.

I feel the same way, New Vegas' base story wasn't spectacular in any way but when Old World Blues and Lonesome Road came out, it really gave the story the boost it needed. Obsidian was good at choices and consequences but at times the game was boring.Bethesda doesn't do story well, but no one else comes close to their world design, except for Rockstar. A lot of people give people flak for Bethesda for casualizing the game, but Bethesda is a business, and like every other business they're out to make money. Sure Bethesda could have  done more on the role playing aspect but the rampant hate on Bethesda here and on other places is staggering, at the end it's just a game. Game companies will eventually cater to the casuals once they get huge, see Bethesda from Morrowind to Fallout 4 and Bioware from Baldur's Gate to Dragon Age Inquisition. CDPR will also go this route eventually. Obsidian makes indie/niche games for the hardcore, so they're probably safe. Just relax, if you hate Fallout 4 or whatever just go play New Vegas again.


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onowrouzi

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyMon Jun 20, 2016 11:48 pm

@Abazor I agree. This post was meant to point out that Obsidian made a great game but it wouldn't have been possible without Bethesda.

And I can completely relate to people taking games too seriously. I tried to like Dark Souls so much but I just couldn't. But some DS players get super up tight about it.

In all honesty, I didn't even like New Vegas at first. But now it's one of my favorite games.

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PROROOK363

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyTue Jun 21, 2016 12:47 am

@Abazor Very true. At the end of the day, despite how much it may be a part of who we are, it's just a game. Nevertheless. OBSIDIAN and BETHESDA each have their strong spots and their weaknesses.

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PXN

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyTue Jun 21, 2016 1:28 am

@onowrouzi You are brutal man, I felt my bloodpressure spike when I saw that title. lol

I enjoy both renditions BlackIsles(Obsidian) and Bethesdas
I like the groundwork that BlackIsle laid for the fallout series as its creator but I also like how Bethesda brought the game into the modern age by being a 3PS/FPS. Taking the game from its orginal isometric gameplay was a major improvement imo. I wish they followed van buren more for #3 but what can ya do. When the modding community picks up we should have no real issues left to complain about in the game.

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FieldPyro

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyTue Jun 21, 2016 2:15 am

The title scared me for a second lol. But in a sense, you are kind of right, bethesda hasn't made a fallout game that is on caliber with new vegas. Imagine what obsidian could do if they made a fallout game with the creation engine like FO4, would be something special.

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beardofsocrates

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyTue Jun 21, 2016 2:18 am

I almost thought this was going to be a controversial topic, with a click-bait title. XD

What Obsidian accomplished, in the amount of time given, is no short of incredible. Granted mods are required to get the full experience, but strong rpg elements and excellent DLC, to expand upon the actual main storyline, make it very enjoyable game even without mods.

If given the time they need I would be very excited to see what they develop.

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PostSubject: Re: How Obsidian ruined Fallout.    How Obsidian ruined Fallout.  EmptyTue Jun 21, 2016 2:42 am

Well, I thought that this:
Spoiler:
 
Was less interesting than this:
Spoiler:
 
But that's just me, you know.
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