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 Thoughts on Mod Picker?

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beardofsocrates



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PostSubject: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:40 am

Recently, I was browsing the Nexus for the updated 4gb launcher, and noticed it was hidden in protest to the upcoming service mod picker:

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/3927290-wip-mod-picker/

To my understanding, the service provides the user a way to generate a mod list based on the criteria they are searching for. Saving hours of searching for the mods you want for a playthrough. To the average user, this looks awesome, as it's able to work through all the compatibility issues that can arise. It doesn't host any of the mods either, meaning it's within Nexus rules. To add, it offers a filtering/review system.

On paper this all sounds pretty awesome, but to the author I'm pretty sure this will go unappreciated. A system like this appears it would only favor the most elite of modders. For example, if I'm searching a texture pack I will likely have my filters set for the best reviewed to download count. In just a couple of minutes I probably just prevented myself from seeing any other unique texture mods out there, effectively putting dozens of other author's work into obscurity. What I've enjoyed about modding is finding all the gems, and most unique mods that suit my personal taste. This takes the whole searching factor out, and replaces it with something very mechanical.

My second concern is user ignorance. Ignorance isn't a bad thing if you yearn to learn, but for a great percentage of users often that is not the case. If a user is experiencing problems I'm afraid a negative review could be left on the author's work simply because they failed to read the requirements or installation guide. Naturally a negative review is bound to be left more often than a positive one. Just by browsing any popular mod's comment section you can find reported issues that are not of the author's fault. People are just naturally more vocal when angry/frustrated than happy/satisfied. Second a mod could be down voted if a user simply disagrees with the content rather than the quality or experimenting. The endorsement system is by no means perfect, but it doesn't completely discourage modders from continuing and improving their work.

While I am not an author myself, I will be soon. I've had friends who have retracted their work only because of an angry minority, so I hate to see more of this happen.

Part of the reason why I jumped back on GUN was the amount of respect author's received. Each mod has its own thread on this forum, without an endorsement count or review plastered in the title. That bit of surprise of what's in the thread is always awesome. Sure there are all sorts of AR15 models but what kind of meshes, textures, and animations keep me curious to check it out. Even if my system has trouble playing it ATM. =P

So what are your thoughts? A valuable service to the average user, or a detrimental tool to new modders?
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BITBUT



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:10 am

Definitely bad for new/unknown modders/mod everything you said about this certain issue is correct and we can even see it currently as people only download stuff from the best mod authors or the best mods and not even try and support some of the newer mods or find that hidden gem in the recent category of the nexus. But its very unlikely for new players to even view the less popular mods since they only hear about the famous one.I'd suggest they add mod ads where new modders can pay nexus a reasonable price for an ad for their mod,then users could have a preference of what kind of ad(mod category) they would like to see.

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IIHawkerII



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:18 am

Personally, I don't find anything wrong with the current method of acquiring mods to suit your specifications. Sure it could be easier, more streamlined... But so could a lot of things about the nexus. I'd side against the mod picker if I had to pick a side at all, the whole kybosh seems to promote laziness and advertisement of higher-use modifications.

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beardofsocrates



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:22 am

@BITBUT I agree with everything you said, but paying to be noticed seems rather sad considering that you're offering a free mod. =(

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BITBUT



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:33 am

@beardofsocrates wrote:
@BITBUT I agree with everything you said, but paying to be noticed seems rather sad considering that you're offering a free mod. =(

Shhhhhh dont be sad, just like every scumbag AAA developer says about their microtransaction "its optional™".

Or it could be a perk for nexus premium.

Yeah its really sad now that I realized what I said Sad .

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Kitiara



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:59 am

I heard that the Author wants to upload to their network the .esp and .esm files from mods, apparently the author thinks that .esm and .esp files are not mods because they don't contain any assets.

I think many mod authors are against it and are thinking hiding all their mods on nexus as a protest or something.

EDIT: Just found a mod author that is protesting it, Roy Batty:
http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/61141/?

Notice the: "The reason given by the author is: Mod Picker Protest"

EDIT 2: Just noticed that the Author of 4gb mod the OP mentioned is the same Author I posted oops Angry Mob

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:13 am

Cuts of new talent and seems only necessary for those who like ask for 'modpacks' seems like terrible business to me.

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tgspy



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:48 am

To me it honestly just looks like a lazy and somewhat troublesome and unforgiving alternative to the currently more than sufficient system of installing and testing out mods. We don't need a system to tell us what mods don't work together, modding isin't really supposed to be a "Family Friendly" scene there is supposed to be some hard ships and work going into it. If people then encounter a problem that the system can't fix, then what will happen, the person will have no clue what to do and can't fend for themselves so we see an increase in "Why does my game not work" posts. IMO this is a pointless system to have, and as others have pointed out, it would only favor big time modders so the lower class ones would lose out. A Lose Lose situation in my mind.

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beardofsocrates



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:13 pm

@Kitiara Darn, was looking forward towards Roy's New Vegas uncut mod.

I find this thread very interesting: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4036140-mod-picker-the-fearsome-juggernaut/

Apparently the creators admitted they didn't contact any of the most effected authors within a good amount time. Despite that oversight the plan is still to go ahead. I think the Dark One is regretting giving them permission.

The creators also gave out a document to address some concerns, though I feel it raises more questions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ogwzM4PmBI0qfr92cOLKrX18jAayEpHmuqtFd2vA0mU/edit#heading=h.e8zwy0iq25hs

Some note worthy points:
-Reviews must be a minimum of 255 words. I'm guessing the idea here is, if the user was too lazy to read the guide, they're too lazy to write a short essay?

-Reputation system: Very bizarre. A user is limited to giving it out 15 times, those with the most rep come first, and both the mod user and the mod itself share a separate reputation.

-No mention of an opt-in or out. Your mod will be mentioned in their database whether you like it or not.
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Evmeister



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:14 pm

If it isn't broke, don't fix it. The current Nexus system is not perfect but it works well. There is/was no reason to change it. If I see something I like or think it's interesting, I track and then come back to see if it got enough endorsements. Why? Because that tells me it's not a buggy or bad mod and worth the time. However, I have one mod on Nexus that only has 20 endorsements. Of course it's kind of niche.

Why do people always have to mess with things when they're fine just the way they are.

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thegreataimbottio



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:46 pm

Like @Evmeister said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But to play Devil's advocate for a second, the comparison that the devs made to PC-Part-Picker made me think me think that it'll be easier for more-experienced modders to save their load orders that may or may not contain hidden gems found on the Nexus to share to people who are new to the game and save people who haven't modded before a ton of trouble, God knows that it's taken me years to get the hang of modding my game and knowing the in's and out's of my PC's habits when modding and I feel like to an inexperienced person, going through all that trouble would seem very unappealing. Secondly, for Youtubers like AlChestBreach they might make a profile on this website and make a mod profile specific so that that their fans could download and he/she could update it every episode. Please find flaws in this logic, I just came up with this at the top of my head and I'm sure that it's not perfectly sound. I personally believe that this won't be as successful as the developers tried to make it to be because of how much tweaking you have to do to your games to make them work sometimes and there are bound to be bugs. Just use Mod Organizer if you want to have different profiles for mods, but I can see from a beginner standpoint, why this may seem appealing.

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Druuler



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:22 pm

I understand what it is that the Mod Picker team is trying to achieve, but from everything I am reading on the Nexus, the way things are being set up needs to be redone. Now, in the MP teams favor, they have been listening to the concerns of the mod authors that have been discussing the project with them, and made some changes to the project. But, there are basically (very basically) two issues that mod authors are still not happy with, myself included.

First: The project will be monetized. To my understanding, this will be something like how mod reviews on YouTube work. The mod reviewer makes money off of the mod via the ads shown/placed on their video, while the mod author does not. And mod authors cannot make money off of their mods (at least the mods for Bethesda's games), as Bethesda does not allow the direct monitization of mods at this point. This is quite the sore spot with mod authors, and I do not blame them.

Second: With the current set up for implementation, we mod authors have an option to "opt out" of the project, but not one to "opt in". In other words, we have no initial choice in whether we will participate in the project or not. We are part of it, like it or not. Once things are up and running though, then we can request to have our mods removed from the project, as long as we have a valid or reasonable reason to be making the request. From what I and several others have read, "I am not interested in participating" does not seem to be a valid reason.

Now, some of you may be asking how mod authors on the Nexus are being forced to participate? For this project to work as initially intended, a "scrape" (copy) of the whole Nexus Mods has to be performed, which, to be done legally, requires Darkone's permission. He tentatively gave that permission before the Mod Picker team began discussions with the Nexus mod authors. Darkone did mention that he would rescind his permission, if the general consensus of the Nexus mod authors was against the project. Due to how the general discussion was turning out (or not turning out, in some cases), mod authors have begun hiding their mods in protest of the project. From what I understand, some authors have actually removed their mods entirely from the Nexus. I think I will be joining the ranks of the "hidden" shortly... :/
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praising



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:17 am

I've read some of the discussion on the Nexus forum, but I still don't quite understand what the Mod Picker team is trying to accomplish. I agree with @Evmeister when he says that they're basically trying to make a kind of nexus, but without the mod themselves. I don't think it's a good idea at all, like it has been said, Nexus is not perfect but it still works. And, I might be wrong, but it seems like the Mod Picker team is kinda forcing their idea on mod authors. To me, this is just a good way to divise the modding community.

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Kitiara



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:43 am

@Evmeister wrote:
If it isn't broke, don't fix it. The current Nexus system is not perfect but it works well. There is/was no reason to change it. If I see something I like or think it's interesting, I track and then come back to see if it got enough endorsements. Why? Because that tells me it's not a buggy or bad mod and worth the time. However, I have one mod on Nexus that only has 20 endorsements. Of course it's kind of niche.

Why do people always have to mess with things when they're fine just the way they are.
The why is as simple and old as time itself... greed.
The Mod picker is made for one purpose and one purpose only, money. Like Druuler said they will be making money out of ads on the mods pages while the mod author can't (due to Bethesda Terms and Conditions).

So the old idea of making money out of others work is here in action again

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PostSubject: Bethesda's new take on modding.   Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:51 am

If you haven't seen it here is a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdGr8MH4pPU

It really seems like Bethesda is really going to go along with this multi-platform modding thing. In my opinion, I think its really cool of Bethesda to try this sort of method out. Maybe giving console gamers a taste of mods without having to do some crazy, and maybe illegal shit to their console. Yes, They're probably gonna have to do something to get F4SE working on consoles and it would be miracle if they do, and a lot of texture mods will get this game running slowly on console, but the thought that Bethesda is even trying this really shows they care about us as a community through all platforms, and want all of us to have equal amounts of fun. Now, there is another thing, Bethesda also introduced a new modding section on their official site. A lot of people are saying this is them trying to replace the Fallout 4 mod section of the Nexus. If they are, I don't really think its gonna happen. The Nexus is a very strong community and I don't they're going away anytime soon, but honestly, I don't they're trying to do that either. After all these years, I think Bethesda should be aware of the Nexus and that Fallout and Skyrim are probably their most popular modding sites. Anyways, what are your thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:06 pm

I think it's be stupid of Bethesda to try and shut down the Nexus. They'd have a lot of angry fans and we'd have another fiasco that would be similar to the paid mods controversy on Steam.

Also, it would violate that level of freedom that games like Skyrim had when it comes to mods.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:27 pm

In regards to this, something I found 'interesting' was mentioned recently on the Nexus. With the release of the new GECK/CK for Fallout 4, the use of mods in your Fallout 4 game disables achievements. I cannot verify this, as I am not yet able to play the game, but if true, I think it puts a negative light on the use of mods. With that said, I personally do not care for achievements, so I will happily use a "blank" esp just to keep the damned things from popping up.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:37 pm

@"Archangel470"

I'm positive that would cause a massive backlash from the community. If they care about the community at all, I simply don't believe they'll try shutting it down. Although it's understandable that we have our fears about it.
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Druuler



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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:42 pm

I thought I would mention that since my last post, things between the Mod Picker team and the Mod Authors on the Nexus have cooled down significantly. The mud slinging, finger pointing, accusations, and (hopefully) death threats (yes, you read that correctly...) have stopped. People on both sides have realized where they were wrong, and they are now talking to each other. They are working together to make Mod Picker something that would be an asset to the modding community, both for the mod authors and the mod users. Darkone has insisted that the MP team allow Mod Authors to opt out before the site goes live, if they so choose. If it is not implemented, then the MP team cannot go ahead with their site "scrape". This went a long way towards calming things down.

I am very happy to see that part of the modding/gaming community working passed their differences, and collaborating on this project. With that said, I myself will still not participate as a Mod Author, as we have to opt out instead of having the choice to opt in. In my opinion, the Mod Picker team should have approached the mod authors of the different sites they wanted to connect to (the Nexus and Lovers Lab being the two I remember off the top of my head), and asked them if they were interested in in the project, and how they could go about setting it up to work. Each side could have presented its ideas, and proceeded from there. I think it would have prevented the hostilities that arose, as well as the rifts in the community that formed. Again, just my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Mod Picker?   Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:46 pm

i think bethesda. net is only there so that console users can get access to mods. The nexus is an independent site if im not wrong and there is no scenario in the world that i can imagine were they would attempt to shut it down.

People are just paranoid these days in my opinion

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