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 Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]

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How Would You Rate TFA?
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Havoc



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PostSubject: Star Wars the Force Awakens (spoilers, duh)   Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:35 am

So here we go.
I just finished watching the movie and i have this to say:

The movie itself is really good, i really enjoyed the action, the new actors and most of the plot, but....

and this is a massive but...
this has to be the WORST sequel, and note the word sequel in star wars history! there i said it.
Here are my pointers: plot holes, so many plot holes..

Why do we suddenly have the resistance and the republic (which is non existent)
The rebel alliance won a massive victory at Endor, destroyed a large portion of the imperial fleet and virtually all of its commanders. They commanded a large and powerful fleet and were all sett at rebuilding the republic.
Jump forward 30 years and all they have now is one single planet and a squadron of x-wing fighters! I mean, just what? what happen`t, they are reduced to a weaker state then they were at yavin 4.

The republic is mentioned and the first order said they were going to destroy it, so the republic were only those 4/5 planets? And what is the republic? we are never told. why is there a resistance and a republic, do we suddenly have 3 factions?

It seems that everything that happen`t in the last 3 movies has been completely forgotten, i mean the continuity is just rubbish....

i could go into more detail, but i would like to get a discussion going on this, to see everyone`s opinion.

this last part is just my personal opinion and not something to be considered serious but, Snoke is a horrible name for a sith lord, just horrible.....

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:40 am

The New Republic is alive: when you see those planets burning up, those are Republic planets. The Battle of Endor was a major victory, but I don't think you appreciate how big the Empire was. It's huge: they by no means lost a major portion of their fleet.

Those 'plot holes' are explored through the comics and books continuously. I don't personally think it's a plot hole: after all, 30 years has passed. Anything could happen. Personally, I don't mind them: they kept just enough from the past to remind everyone that it's Star Wars, but emerged from the shadows to do well by itself as a movie. There's plenty of continuity porn that you can notice, and while each moment was short, it's nice.

One of my favourite parts of the movie was Kylo Ren: rather than seeing him be an uber-badass, you get to see him in a more human situation where his arrogance creeps up on him and stabs him in the back. Han's death was also completely appropriate: the movie needed to rise from the laurels of our favourite scoundrel, and it did just that.

However, the best part was the scene when Finn tries to one-up Phasma, with Han eventually shutting him up and ultimately suggesting the idea of throwing her into a trash compactor.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:33 pm

I agree with several of your points, i enjoyed the movie itself, but it still bothers me why they don`t explain why we have both the republic and the resistance. It seems so wierd that all these important characters suddenly dont have anything to do with the republic.

I also enjoyed the way Ren was portrayed, but it also seems a little wierd that Rey managed to beat him in a lightsaber duel. Yes he was injured, but its supposed to be very difficult to handle a lightsaber, right?

The knights of Ren? They were barly shown for like 1 second and captain Phasma was severly underused, she just got a few scenes and was easely beaten

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:39 pm

Just wanna say that I never realised how much I liked star wars till "that scene" it was so sad Sad anyway it's my second favourate star wars film Smile Overall it looked really good, and the new characters were interesting too ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:12 pm

hey Havok, where are you from that you got the movie so early?

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:15 pm

@pizzamonster94 wrote:
hey Havok, where are you from that you got the movie so early?

For me it came out yesterday.

I live in Europe so i guess America got it now as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:31 pm

@pizzamonster94 wrote:
hey Havok, where are you from that you got the movie so early?

I live in Norway and the movie had 14 showings at my local cinema yesterday, pluss there were one girl dressed as han solo, to guys dressed as sith from the old republic, one kylo ren, an r2d2, three guys in black costumes and one with a perfect darth maul makeup. what a show

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:07 pm

i live in Italy, came out Yesterday but i watch it saturday alongside my friends...so don't Spoil to me through PM or the dark side will be unleashed upon you

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:31 pm

I personally thought this was a well done film that successfully brings back the magic of Star Wars. The new characters are interesting and there's some great action scenes here.

I also liked how they made Kylo Ren a more human character instead of pulling off another Darth Vader.

Also, in my personal view, Han's death has got to be the darkest in the whole franchise. The fact that he got killed by his own son while also trying to redeem him.... It just goes to show how much the dark side of the Force can influence one person.

R.I.P Han Solo. You may be gone, but I will always remember that you shot first.....

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:39 pm

@Havoc: Yep, Captain Phasma was wasted, especially with all the potential of her character from the media. Also agreed that the Knights of Ren were underused, with little exposition on them.

However, I reckon the fight is legitimate: Ren took a bolt to the torso, and he was already injured from the fight with Finn. Lore-wise (which is kinda up in flames due to Legends), lightsabers were hard to wield precisely: hacking and slashing with them is a relatively simple affair. That's why you can see Finn and Rey initially doing just that, treating the lightsaber as if it had weight. It was only after Rey's 'awakening' near the end of the fight that she treats it like a precision weapon.

My biggest disappoint of the film? The score. The only standout moments were Rey's theme and the end when she scales that mountain, and part of the final X-Wing fight. Come on, John Williams, I know you can do better than that. The First Order theme is ridiculously bad: it sounded like the Trade Federation theme butchered and sewn up by along with the Nazi theme from Indiana Jones. Thank God the final theme sounded so damn awesome, because I'd been pissed otherwise.

@Archangel470: Easily the darkest. Someone tried to say 'but Qui-Gon got murdered too', but unlike Han, I don't care about Qui-Gon Jinn. I care about Liam Neeson, but not Qui-Gon. A great scene if you ask me: the entire theatre I was in cried out a bit at that part.

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:13 am

I was honestly expecting Finn to be a more prominent character as a Jedi prospect, he essentially filled the role as a "false protagonist" IMO, also Mark Hamil got paid to stand there, but man, those physical trainers cleaned him UP!

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:06 am

So I just watched the movie. It was the best star wars imo. The one thing I have a problem with is the lack of lightsaber duels. Anyways here is what I think. The reason why the first order was able to become such a major power was because of luke's absence. If Luke had stayed I am sure we would've seen a larger republic. Han and Leia said it themselves as to why they sort of split up. Kylo (Ben) destroyed Luke's new jedi order. The only thing that is unanswered in my head is Snoke and Rey. Is Rey a skywalker? Where did Snoke come from? Is Snoke a sith or is his simply just a dark side user of the force?
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PostSubject: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:57 pm

So, how'd you guys like the movie? I thought it was AMAZING and can't wait for Rogue One next December.

Few things I liked (Again, SPOILERS. Why are you here if you haven't seen the movie anyways?)

-Kylo Ren, his mask and overall how much of a dynamic and interesting character he was and could potentially be

-The way Han died. He died with honor in a very noble way, trying to save his son. My first thoughts was that he was and idiot for trusting Ren/Ben but after more thought was given I realized Han isn't a complete fool. He knew full well that he would probably die, but couldn't live in a world where his son was a member of the Dark Side, and would rather die in an attempt to save him than him becoming a Sith.

-The new protagonists. Rey and Finn. They're both amazing and I think that they were well acted. Something tells me that they'll never be a couple as much as Finn might like but they'll certainly be best friends and will always be by each others side when needed.

-Humor. The movie was probably had more humor than any other Star Wars movie in the entire saga. BB-8's thumbs up. The "Nope" Troopers (two stormtroopers that immediately walked away once they realized that Ren was having a rage moment) and tons of other stuff. All great

-Diversity. Many times when movies try to diversify their casts they tend to be overt about it and make a big deal about it. Here the characters are not defined by their race or sex but by who they are, and that's where so many movies fail when trying to add diversity. They just want to add a black man or a girl as a protagonist so they can feel as though they're being progressive, and end up making it too much of a big deal. TFA did a great job of having diversity whilst not making that a big deal.

-The FREAKING FIRST ORDER. All around badasses and truly worthy of being the successors to the Galactic Empire. I hope we see more of them and their abilities in the next movie. Also the new uniforms for stormtroopers and officers are amazingly well done.

Things I disliked

-Lack of a memorable score. I love John Williams but the music for TFA lacks that which we heard in the Original and Prequel trilogies. Rey's theme is the only new theme and the music as a whole feels very "cinematic" and rather generic as opposed to what William's has done in the past.

-Not enough Phasma. I understand she will have a much bigger role in Episode VIII but I feel like they should've hyped her less. Just think of her in TFA as an introduction.

-The New Republic. I think I remember hearing something about how the New Republic was destroyed. Just because you destroy ONE SYSTEM does not mean that THE ENTIRE NEW REPUBLIC is destroyed. I hope they didn't actually say that but I would love to see more of the New Republic in upcoming films.

Things I want to see in the future

-Growth of Kylo Ren. I want him to become a mature Sith Lord and not remain as an angsty Vader wannabe. It's fine for the first film and suits the character well but he needs to grow throughout the trilogy

-To not mimic the original trilogy so much. It's fine for the initial installment but I want to see more of an original storyline and hope we don't just get Original Trilogy Version 2.0.

-the New Republic. I want to see more of them. What happened to it after the destruction of the capital? What chaos ensued? What is their political climate? Why are they supporting the Resistance instead of directly waging war against The First Order? So many questions.

-More backstory to be developed. We don't really know much about the factions I think. How did the First Order arise? What happened to the New Republic? What other factions are there?

-Coruscant. I want to see some of Coruscant, and no it wasn't destroyed that was Hosnian Prime. I want to know what happened to it after the collapse of the Empire. I hope we see it in future installments.

I'm going to cut this short because this is getting WAAAAYYY longer than initially anticipated.





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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:48 pm

It was good. The jokes were great, nothing over the top and cringe worthy. The action was awesome. I absolutely loved the 1 on 1 battle between the Stormtrooper and Finn. It gave the stormtroopers more of a "hey we are people too" feeling for me. And that they are not just there to soak up the lasers as sponges.

It fit well with the original series and I believe JJ did a fantastic job. So chalk another one up for him doing good for not only Star Trek, but also Star Wars. Thanks Abrams!

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:20 pm

Probably my favorite Star Wars movie. I absolutely love the new cast. Kylo Ren seems like the perfect antagonist. Someone who wants to be just like Vader, but can't escape his shadow. Hoping we see a lot more Mark Hamill in the next movie.

I love how it mirrors A New Hope. Po(Leia) gives BB8 (R2D2) the map of luke skywalker (death star plans). Han Solo (Kenobi) has that last stand with Kylo Ren (Darth Vader) while our protagonists, Finn and Rey (Luke) can do nothing but watch
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:49 pm

First have to say that i have been grown up with the Episodes 4-6, and i think i will never get that feeling back when watching them the first time. anyway the episode 7 was realy good. i like the new characters except of Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. i think that Adam Driver didnt fit in that role. Ren lost his whole mystic and dreadful occur buy removing his helmet.

the jokes were ok, i dont realy like them, but thats disney and i am sure more will coming up. the most important thing for me is that i absolutly believe the movie. the effects were well done. even the animated parts were f....ing real hehehe amazing. i am very curious how it continues........

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:04 pm

i see that a lot of people online sees the movie as a episode 4 remake/copy, and i do agree, its just so similare.
On the faction side i still dont see why we dont have the republic vs the first order, why do we need a resistance?
the fact that luke was absent should not in my opinion have that major factor on the conflict, as the major sith lords were both killed in the last film, yes snoke is a bit of a unknown quantity and kylo is to inexperienced to have had to much of an influence.
Regarding snoke i actually hope that he really is darth plagius, it would be a nice touch.

And i bet Rey is really a skywalker, guessing she was hidden away on jakku by luke to protect her from kylo (maybe he killed her mother?)

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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:07 pm

I also felt that Kylo was unmasked a bit too early and he doesn't have a "bad guy look" but I guess that is the point cause he is basically still just a kid. I know I may be controversial with is choice but for me it's: Empire Strikes back and then Force Awakens for me anyway but that is just my opinion and here is why. I feel as though the jokes were good, Finn and Rey were a good duo and I swear, I was almost crying when Han died. #KyloStabbedFirst. I also was really hyped up for this and it was a defo better movie than any of the Prequels by a large amount. Altogether, can't wait to see the next movies.Good job JJ!
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:50 pm

I feel like you need to think over the movie again. The stuff is explained/could easily be explained. Yes there needed to be more explanations but I feel as though we'll get them in the next movie.

Here is explanation of the lore (which can easily be figured out by a quick Wookieepedia search or filling in the gaps with logical hypotheses).

After ROTJ the Galactic Empire was severly destabilized. It's central authority gone, and there was no heir, the political sphere after Palpatine's death would've been a nightmare with generals and politicians all vying for control. In the old canon many admirals took their fleets and went rogue to found their own kingdoms and principalities. This also could very likely have happened during the new canon.

With the Galactic Empire severely destabilized and weak the Rebellion can now fulfill it's primary goal: to restore the Republic. In the new canon the New Republic was founded 3 months after ROTJ. At which point it declared war on the Empire and a war was waged. How long this war lasted or what all happened we do not know but we do know that during this time period the Battle of Jakku took place. The New Republic, after defeating the Galactic Empire, it reduced it's military size by 90% as to symbolize that it is a peaceful entity.

At some point after this war a faction known as The First Order emerges. We do not know much about it's origins at present though it could likely have been a splinter group that broke away from the Empire after Palpatine was killed. Whatever the case may be, it's aim is to destroy the New Republic and bring back the Galactic Empire, essentially what the Rebellion's goal was but reversed. This faction is led by a mysterious leader, Supreme Leader Snoke. Many theories are circulating as to his identity, one being that he is Darth Plagueis, another that he is Palpatine, who managed to survive ROTJ and came back to recreate the Empire.

This faction has since it's creation begun to use military might to conquer New Republic (and non-New republic) territories and systems. The New Republic, with 90% of it's military gone it fails to wage war successfully against the First Order, which is terrorizing systems. With the new threat to the Galaxy in place a splinter group not created directly by the New Republic emerges, the Resistance. This Resistance was likely created in response to the New Republic's lack of military ability. This Resistance is not a part of the New Republic, but is supported by it.

In response to the 4-5 planets you mentioned, that was the Capital System of the New republic. It's Capital, Hosnian Prime, was destroyed along with a sizable portion of the New Republic Fleet. This, similar to Palpatine's death, is a very crippling blow. The New Republic still exists, but with it's military weakened and it's capital gone it has become severely weakened. The New republic consists of more than just one system, it contains hundreds of systems. But it was very much weakened.

I hope this clears things up, and makes the movie much better for you Smile

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Last edited by SpaceLord21 on Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion [SPOILERS]   Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:10 pm

@SpaceLord21

That post is a 1+ rep from me atleast, very well explained! could you post some sources if you have to your post? i would love to read it Smile
but still it should be in the movie, or atleast explained

edit: never mind the links, wookipedia has been updated since i wast there last

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