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 (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion

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Lucianhector



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 5:06 pm

At the end of the day, the institute killed my wife, and my sons grown up to be a heartless son-of-a-bitch, so F*ck 'em.

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ac398



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 5:15 pm

Kellog killed your wife, not the Institute, and yeah he does but hes also literally sheltered his whole life.

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mpaz96



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 5:35 pm

@ac398 wrote:
Kellog killed your wife, not the Institute, and yeah he does but hes also literally sheltered his whole life.

Kellog works for the Institute and your son has never seen to world outside that facility and now he doesn't care about anyone outside the Institute. Just my opinion though. Very Happy

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Lucianhector



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 6:42 pm

@ac398 Kellog was hired by the Institute, he wouldn't have been there if not for them; they knew how reckless he was.

And like @mpaz96 Mentioned, he chose to hide away down there & doesn't care about anything outside the institute, the little bitch


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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sat 21 Nov 2015, 8:08 pm

Well for me the minutemen are the eastern equivalent if the NCR with the only exception of them being people not wanting to create a country just defending it from mass killings from others that kills. They are good by nature with their vendetta being to only protect others that can't like all the farmers in the commonwealth. In my opinion, I can see them grow larger than when we made them and can possibly spread even to Washington D.C. but, i don't know if the brotherhood of steel will like that or heck even the Regulators. Sure they may be small but remember we met the faction with literally one person left (well 2) in the faction so obviously it will rise later on to defend the commonwealth like what the NCR was in the western.

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stfdmn



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 8:02 am

I dont see how picking a side in FO4 is a tough choice. You went out in the world basically for revenge and to find your son. That's what drives you. Those are literally your character's first words after climbing down from your crypod. The Institute killed your spouse. It doesnt matter who pulled the trigger, the Institute is to blame. Their synths are also killing and kidnapping innocents on the surface.
I seriously can't understand how someone would ally themselves with the Institute. Especially when doing that you must destroy the Brotherhood of Steel, who may be assholes, but they are not bad guys, and Railroad guys, which again are not bad or evil. Shawn literally tells you to go kill the Railroad command chain. How can you justify that, no matter what Greater Good Shawn may have in mind.

Also, your son seems to be ok with the fact that a man working for the Institute killed his mother/father when he was an infant. And when he grew up and become the leader of said Institute he did nothing to stop/kill Kellogg (who is still alive due to cyber enhancements). Shawn is obviously not the son I would be proud of.

All in all, not destroying the Institute is like not destroying the Reapers in Mass Effect. It's against everything you fought for the entire game. I'm ok with the fact that the choice is there, but going with it? That's morally sick.

I went with the Minutemen. They are not insane, they dont have any hidden agendas, they just want the killings and the kidnappings to stop so everybody can leave in peace. They don't hate mutants, synths, they don't hoard technology, nothing. They are just human beings.

EDIT - Another thing that I remembered: While BoS may be against all mutants and synths, Maxwell is not blind to reason. He is not a crazed leader who kills anything that isn't human. You can convince him to spare Danse's life, you can probably convince him Nick is a decent synth aswell. What I'm saying is he can make exceptions. Gain his trust and you can have a powerful military force defending the Commonwealth from real threats, while the Minutemen takes care of the common folk. That's why you need Charisma 10 Smile

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pizzamonster94



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 10:57 am

remember that not all BOS are in the mindset Maxson Ordered, many defected, while Others simly joined so the BOS can be Whole again while retaining at least some of Lyons teaching...thus maybe there's some hope for the BOS to change...remember that the reason why BOS hoards technology is mostly because they see outsiders as incapable to use said tech without destroying each Other...just look at the Raiders, Caesar's Legion and all those destructive factions you encounter...do you really want them to find all the hidden secrets the old world stores?

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Voivre



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 11:21 am

I didn't want to destroy the Institute, but the Brotherhood of Steel sounded like Nazis, the Institute were slavers of their own creation, didn't get to side fully with the Minutemen yet since I'd have to play through the game again to do so, but from what I know of them, they seem respectable enough. I ended up siding with the Railroad as I felt compelled to aid the hunted and enslaved find a future where they could be safe and prosperous and free. I do hate how many settlements I'm expected to establish, build and defend, when all I ever cared about since FO3 was having one townhouse or apartment to myself. My friend can't be bothered at all with settlement building, so she just decided to live in the root cellar in Sanctuary..lol

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Tesvixen



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 11:24 am

@stfdmn wrote:
I seriously can't understand how someone would ally themselves with the Institute.

Without meaning to sound rude, it doesn't matter if you understand it. Not everyone is going to think the way you do or interpret the story the way you do.

When I started the game I went into it thinking 'save my son' and 'nuke the institute at the first opportunity'. Finding out what actually happened to him complicates that. Finding out that some synths are genuinely good (Nick Valentine, for example) also complicates it. And lots of people down there have no idea about the 'shady' stuff they do. As was proven when Madison Li learned the truth about Virgil - so it would be pretty horrible to bomb all those scientists and such to dust because of the decisions of a few.

So yeah. Its not as black and white as 'BOS good, Institute bad'.

And speaking of them, as already been pointed out by several of us, the BoS has its dark side as well. Their attitude toward non-humans borders on fascism... some of my favorite NPCs and companions are characters the BoS would gun down on sight simply because of their appearance.

I haven't learned much about the skeletons in the RR/Minutemen's closets yet, but I imagine they're there.



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mpaz96



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 3:26 pm

Everyone has their bad side, the Railroad only care about synths.
The Institute only care about themselves.
BoS only care about humans.
The Minutemen where the best in my opinion, couldn't find anything wrong with them.

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alonewolf003



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 4:31 pm

@stfdmn wrote:
I dont see how picking a side in FO4 is a tough choice. You went out in the world basically for revenge and to find your son. That's what drives you. Those are literally your character's first words after climbing down from your crypod. The Institute killed your spouse. It doesnt matter who pulled the trigger, the Institute is to blame. Their synths are also killing and kidnapping innocents on the surface.
I seriously can't understand how someone would ally themselves with the Institute. Especially when doing that you must destroy the Brotherhood of Steel, who may be assholes, but they are not bad guys, and Railroad guys, which again are not bad or evil. Shawn literally tells you to go kill the Railroad command chain. How can you justify that, no matter what Greater Good Shawn may have in mind.

Well if you've already done a few Institute quests you were given from the start when you first met Shaun, you'd know that a Synth that escaped, and received the "help" of the Railroad (memory erase - start a new life), became a raider leader that raided on human caravans and the like. The synths you helped were good by nature, this memory erase to help them start a new life thing ruins have a high chance to potentially ruin others' lives. Which is the reason why I decided to destroy them after they tell me to kill some of the BoS patrols that was a mission hindrance, which is when I've reached that level of limit "I've had enough of your crap", then I wrecked the Prydwen too, don't need that kind of hoarding here.

Quote :
Also, your son seems to be ok with the fact that a man working for the Institute killed his mother/father when he was an infant. And when he grew up and become the leader of said Institute he did nothing to stop/kill Kellogg (who is still alive due to cyber enhancements). Shawn is obviously not the son I would be proud of.
Fair point. But you also have to look from his point of view, he never has any memories with his mother, or you, you two are basically almost complete stranger to him, so it is easy for him to move on, if I dare say. Kellogg was an effective tool. Obviously I have lots of disagreements with him but him moving on from his mother's death I can kinda understand, but otherwise, the Institute corrupted him with their miserable perspective on the real Commonwealth. They've lived in nobility and richness and rely on their machines for too long, they forgot the concept of hard work and unity. It was only a matter of time before the Institute destroys itself anyway (I ran around the Institute looking for conversations, and learned that all the other departments hate the Robotics Department the most, you can kinda see where I'm going eh?).

Quote :
All in all, not destroying the Institute is like not destroying the Reapers in Mass Effect. It's against everything you fought for the entire game. I'm ok with the fact that the choice is there, but going with it? That's morally sick.
Not quite. You fought for an innocent 10 years old child, but found a (what, 70, 80?) dude instead. Kinda missed the point when you got there because he doesn't need your protections anymore and he's matured enough to make his own decisions (which is heavily influenced by his environment and the organization if I might repeat myself), he was ready to give up on the real Commonwealth, and that's a disappointment for lots of people that's for sure.

Quote :
I went with the Minutemen. They are not insane, they dont have any hidden agendas, they just want the killings and the kidnappings to stop so everybody can leave in peace. They don't hate mutants, synths, they don't hoard technology, nothing. They are just human beings.
Couldn't agree more.
Quote :

EDIT - Another thing that I remembered: While BoS may be against all mutants and synths, Maxwell is not blind to reason. He is not a crazed leader who kills anything that isn't human. You can convince him to spare Danse's life, you can probably convince him Nick is a decent synth aswell. What I'm saying is he can make exceptions. Gain his trust and you can have a powerful military force defending the Commonwealth from real threats, while the Minutemen takes care of the common folk. That's why you need Charisma 10 Smile
Well Maxwell might not be blind to charismatic guy, but who are there to say he won't do the same thing somewhere else when there's not another you to reason with him? Or the other Elders? One guy =/= the entire force. I decided to keep the BoS away from the Commonwealth.

Not trying to say what you've done is wrong because this is a role play game, just wanted to point out some things that I thought worth mentioning. :p

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maybenexttime



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 11:01 pm

The most confusing part for me on why people have hardest times in choosing a faction due to BoS being "racist"... is that each faction will ask you to wipe out feral ghouls, super mutants and raiders. Sure BoS is the most vocal about killing ghouls and super mutants, but the Railroad, Institute and Minutemen all have radiant quests on killing ghouls and super mutants over and over again to further their purposes. The only way to complete these quests is just to kill them all. None of these factions really care about ghouls and super mutants.

Institute already gave up on humanity on the surface and willing to replace each one of them with controlled synths. BoS is at least giving humanity a chance. Shaun became a product of the Institute.

I sided with both the minutemen and BoS. I don't agree with all of the stuff BoS does but giving a humanity a chance is a no brainer for me.

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Tesvixen



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 11:41 pm

@maybenexttime wrote:
The most confusing part for me on why people have hardest times in choosing a faction due to BoS being "racist"

What's hard to understand? Yes the Institute gave up on the above ground people, which does suck, but so does a faction that screams 'if it isn't human, shoot it!' - some of those non-humans are human in every other sense of the word. Virgil, Fawkes, Willow, Gob, Harkness, Danse, and tons of other of examples come to mind - individuals who the BOS would purge like cockroaches because of circumstances often outside their control. That's no better than Nazism. Yeah you can convince Maxson to spare Danse, but that's a charisma check/dialogue choice, not him genuinely making the right choice.

And you conveniently seem to be forgetting that BOS is far more concerned with preserving technology than humanity. Elder Lyons' chapter of the BOS was the group concerned with helping people, and they were considered weak, pathetic, a failure of the Brotherhood, etc. That's the reason we ended up with the Outcasts - and even the Brotherhood in FO4 trashes Lyons' group for losing sight of the true mission, recovering tech.

So yeah... nothing confusing about it.

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Kakashi Hatake



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 11:51 pm

I havent actually played Fallout 4 yet but from what ive seen of gameplay(I couldnt help spoiling myself lol) the Minutemen seem to be the best of all the factions. They avoid conflict if its possible and they only fight the BoS if you managed to make the BoS hostile before the endgame and they manage to take down the Prydwen with artillery spread scross 5 settlements without even having to rely on Liberty Prime if you do have to come to blows.The fact that to progress through the Minutemen quests by building and maintaining settlements wins me over ideologically and the best thing i like about them is that they dont act like a ruling power but as guardians of the people of the Commonwealth ,they just want people to be safe,to carry on with their lives without fear of possibly being ruled by technology or military force.

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Kira Yoshikage



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Sun 22 Nov 2015, 11:58 pm

@maybenexttime Minutemen never had any sort of vendetta against mutants or ghouls, unless they are truly hostile (in every case they were). They are violent against the Super Mutants who very clearly are being savages and are attacking innocent people. Almost all missions they have you carry out are attacking Raiders, Super Mutants, and FERAL ghouls. The Brotherhood however are a lost cause, everything Lyons had built in FO3 was destroyed by Arthur's selfishness and greed, they don't care about the Wasteland and never will, also they want to exterminate the Mutants regardless of their neutrality.

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Tesvixen



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:01 am

Minutemen is where I'm kind of leaning myself, Kaka, but I've yet to reach a moment in game that definitively lets me 'side' with them. So far its just settlements and radiant 'my friend has been kidnapped!' type stuff.
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Kakashi Hatake



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:06 am

Yeah @Tesvixen the real Minutemen quests only start when you have to take the Castle from the Mirelurks but you at least get a really intense defense mission against the Institute Synths not long after. On another note I feel sorry for the Gunner faction though, they're simply Fallout 4's version of Talon Company.

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Tesvixen



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:11 am

I did the castle stuff (which unlocked artillery blueprints) but that's the only significant event so far.
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mpaz96



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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Mon 23 Nov 2015, 12:56 am

@Tesvixen If you want to join The Minutemen, there's a point where you can talk to Preston a tell him that you are going against the Institute, he then tells you that they need more men or something like that, can't remember, you then have to keep doing their "missions", you know the ones that are like "i'm a settler having a problem, help please", and the Institute will then attack the Castle and then I believe that you can attack the Institute after that. I think that happens anyway, I didn't actually attack The Institute, only got to the part of deffending The Castle then loaded a previous save and joined the BoS, not because I thought they were the best choice but because I wanted to see Liberty Prime rise again hahaha Very Happy. I didn't see what happen if I joined The Minutemen after that, because i'm too lazy haha.

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PostSubject: Re: (MAJOR SPOILERS) Fallout 4 Factions Discussion   Mon 23 Nov 2015, 1:49 am

@tesvixen very reasonable response however you have avoided some of the key points.

1. The Institute hass already set plans in motion for mass genocide, slowing replacing humans with their synth counterparts. Sure BoS can exhibit "Nazi" like characteristics but killing everyone and replacing them with synths? I'm 100% sure that's worse than what BoS is trying to do.

2. You forget that the Institute also gives radiant quests over and over again killing super mutants and feral ghouls. And also collecting samples from them. You'd also prob have noticed their laboratories are filled with test subjects esp in the FEV department. Like I said BoS is more vocal about against ghouls and such but I'm not sure how you can let the Institute off the hook so easily. So essentially you have BoS killing things and the Institute "experimenting" on them which well as you know Nazi's were notorious for. So the bottom line is you have BoS and the Institute telling you to kill ghouls, super mutants, etc.

3. Someone mentioned it, they killed your spouse, stole your baby and raised him under the Institute's influence.

Yes, BoS cares about technology more but imo that's a heck of a lot better than causing mass genocide on the planet surface with Institute. I already said that I don't agree with all of what BoS says but sacrificing humanity without giving a chance seems just wrong on many levels. Honestly, I feel like the Institute exhibit more attributes of Nazism. They conduct experiments, they only believe themselves as pure and have the right to kill everyone on the surface. I see BoS as just racist tech junkies.

Hence why it stems from my no brainer comment. To sacrifice humanity or not to sacrifice humanity. It's simply the lesser of two evils.

BTW folks I chose both the minutemen and BoS. I think minutemen is the best for the commonwealth but BoS prob had the most fun questline due to Liberty Prime.

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