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 Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?

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Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?
LEGION
5%
 5% [ 4 ]
NCR
54%
 54% [ 44 ]
ROBERT HOUSE
16%
 16% [ 13 ]
YES MAN
25%
 25% [ 21 ]
Total Votes : 82
 

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roflcopter117



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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:47 am

I chose to finish the main quest with the NCR mainly because of attachments with them that came from Fallout 2. They are far from perfect, but I would rather have them governing the Mojave than Caesar's Legion or Mr. House.

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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:54 am

I choose the NCR in most cases however I would prefer and independent Vegas allied with NCR. Sadly the Independent choice seems poorly implemented and seems to just lead to chaos.
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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:17 am

Being honest, the first time I played Fallout New Vegas was the modded concept of it. I WAS going to help NCR, considering my faction SKMC could possibly make an alliance with them. But after playing through it, I noticed how self-centered and selfish the NCR are. I certainly make no pledge of alliance to Caesar's Legion, as slavery violates SKMC's charter and the fact they're prejudice against women.

But in the end, the NCR proved no better than the Legion. Both of them want to force you into their way of living. I don't give a damn about Mr. House either. Considering that old senile asshole makes us have to pay a toll to get into the strip. Thankfully, I am working on ways to circumvent that, and without wasting my time sneering back at NCR's thugs guns blazing and such when I wanted to use the subway. Even playing for security detail in the president's service, if it's a security sweep, it should be a security sweep. Plain and simple. Otherwise, don't ask us to check, Ranger Grant. *ahem* But that's not the reason I hate NCR.

I hate NCR because they show how much they under-appreciate their allies' help. If they don't appreciate my help, f*ck 'em. The second reason is they don't give food or water to the kids near Camp Golf or some other place, I don't remember exactly. The third and final reason is NCR violated my law that restricts the killing of unarmed civilians. I heard what happened at Bitter Springs. They could've taken the kids into an orphanage or something, but nooooo. They just had to 'roll in guns blazing' because the Great Khans killed some of their terrorist boot-licking Crimson Caravaneers, sorry I had to say it. Maybe they weren't terrorist helpers back then, but if the Crimson Caravan doesn't want to respect SKMC and NCR taking this dispute privately, then I consider them terrorists for aiding the enemy. Also, the load screens mention they don't like playing the role as peacekeeper, but again doesn't the wasteland lack of a proper justice system as it always. Killing civies is bad, but killing children just crosses the line. In my eyes, NCR needs to pay and answer for what they've done.

As much I would like to repair civilizations, reform city and state governments for each, but again it's a lot of work, even for the courier in the unmodded version. I don't like any of the endings, but I'm afraid independent Vegas is my only pick. I guess you could say, I prefer a dangerous freedom than a peaceful slavery. But overall, NCR is not exactly 'evil' like the Legion, but it doesn't make them the good guys either. Just a bunch of assholes to me.

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FollowingFools



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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:20 am

I've honestly only every played through the once and I believe I sided with NCR. Will be interesting to see which faction I side with this time.
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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:15 am

During my first few playthroughs of New Vegas, I always seemed to drift over to the NCR.
It usually begins with me appointing the NCR sheriffs of Primm,
giving them definitive control of trade on Hi-15 between Goodsprings and the Mojave Outpost.
Also, the taxes they collect on the citizens isn't that bad either.
I understood their principles, respected them for their sacrifice,
and accepted them as the most just rulers for New Vegas compared to the other possible choices.

   As the Admiral said earlier, (Salutes),
Mr. House wants an unbeatable empire with all of the riches to back it.
No one will stand in his way if he sets his mind on a goal.
He and Caesar aren't really that different after all!
Always in my playthroughs I would let House live out of respect for the old man.
After all, he did save most of Vegas from the Great War bombings thanks to him planning ahead.
I would, eventually, start doing quests for House, upgrading the Fort Securitrons,
just really being his obedient lapdog.
Until...he asked, no, DEMANDED I kill the NV Brotherhood of Steel chapter.
This was where I draw the line.

 
I'm a proud member of the B.O.S. and, after having completed Broken Steel thanks to TTW,
would not stand for the senseless slaughter of my power-armored brothers and sisters.
After House wouldn't see reason, I killed his guards, opened his stasis container,
and left him to die. Thus ends the New Vegas Tyrant.

   Caesar, just like House, wants New Vegas to show his power.
Caesar wants a Rome, and he will have it or die trying.
Personally, I think they make Caesar WAAAAY too easy to kill early in the game.
Sure, 10 guards are great to protect you against the random rebellious slave,
but when 8 heavily armored men/women walk in with the courier,
those guards turn from threats into red paste!
(Literally for me. I have the perk that lets me harvest Thick red paste from dead enemies, yet it doesn't count as cannibalism... Question ).

   Back on track,
Caesar has been asserting his dominance over his 86 tribes by assaulting small tribes in Utah,
Arizona, and Colorado, and many other states.
He gains more recruits for his Legion by killing all of the men, sick, and weak.
He then takes the females and the young boy to either be slave workers or soldiers of the Legion.
These boys are taught to respect and honor their superiors and Caesar until their last breath.
Many of the boys grow to care for their handlers and trainers.
This is evident in the two legion boy recruits directly in front of Caesar's compound entrance being upset and fleeing from the courier if he kills the boy's trainer.
The slaves, however, are not treated as well.
Female slaves may be auctioned off as officer's wives if they are attractive,
or be forced to do embarrassing labor jobs,
such as carry insanely heavy packs from one location to the other.
Older women may be killed or turned into maids for officers.
Either way, Caesar's Legion is too authoritarian and cruel for me to ever side with them.

   Back to the NCR,
I have grown to care for many of the troopers and rangers of the Mojave.
Chief Hanlon reminds me of my own grandfather, so sometimes I will go and just listen to him speak.
Pappas is strict, formal, and a pain in the ass, but once you befriend her, you have a true ally.
Captain Gilles truly wants to help the refugees in Bitter Springs.
Sincerity is not something that is very common in the wasteland.
Finally, Colonel Hsu is my favorite NCR member in the entire game.
Forget Lieutenant Gorobets, or Betsy, or General Oliver.
Hsu is, in my opinion, the most iconic and respectable member of the NCR,
besides the veteran ranger.
Hsu is truly the best member of the NCR. He should be a general, not a Colonel.

 "Calm is what you have to be when people look to you.
And it's all you can be when things are out of your hands"
                                                     -Colonel Hsu


   The NCR may be ripe with corruption,
it may not have a perfect track record with military operations,
it may not be the peacekeepers that the Republic and New Vegas needs,
but they are the only people who can get the job done.


EDIT: I wish I could write like this on my AP essays. I need a life Laugh Out Loud

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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:24 am

@FalloutAddict wrote:
you know the slaughter of children/sickly and elderly was a accident right? XD

I would've forgiven NCR's past crimes if they didn't show an act of hostility towards my faction, but most importantly me, which I explained earlier. So anyone like Papa Khan or the Powder Gangers for instance, speak of murder and corruption within the NCR's ranks, for once, I tend to agree with most of them. The NCR may say it has it's reasons, but SKMC cares not for NCR's reasons. So why should I respect NCR if NCR don't show respect to us? That's my whole point, lol

Even some drunk or otherwise NCR MP just approached one of my characters on the strip for absolutely no reason at all. Then a fight starts, and I'm forced to kill all NCR presence within that area. I have a threshold to how much abuse I can tolerate. XD

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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:28 am

No Gods, No Masters! Free Vegas!

I don't like Legion, and can care less about NCR. Mr. House is greedy. I level the playing field and make it equal opportunity for all.

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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:32 am

@FalloutAddict wrote:
Yea i was just making a point on your one part. Not everything bud.

LOL yeah, the Great Khans weren't in the innocent field either. If anything, even my empire is not perfect, but I believe I can still do a better job than NCR. That's for sure. I'm making a mod based on it too, for me and my buddies to play. Hopefully I can get it done soon, and maybe I'll involve the choice for players to let NCR live or not at the end of the mod. STAG tolerates NCR way less than SKMC does. And STAG's commandos are to the SK gov, as the rangers are to the NCR. Both volunteer elite forces in their own perspective.

lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:09 am

My characters all have overall different ideals when it comes to the various factions, but they all agree on one thing. They all hate the legion.

Each character backstory is different but I will give a basic rundown of one character which is actually twin girls.

Katie and Kathrine (Kit and Kat) were born into a small village in what is now Ceasers territory. When the Legion arrived Ceaser knew that a small village of farmers was better than a city of dead and slaves. He offered the village a deal that they would provide food for the Legion and they would be protected from raiders and fiends, the village agreed, but the soldier in charge believed that this was a ruse to lower the villages guard and destroy it from the inside. Realising what had happened Ceaser ordered the soldier in charge executed but found out that two slaves he took (Kit and Kat) murdered him and fled the camp eventually winding up in the Mojave.
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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:41 am

In terms of vanilla factions and everything, I go for the NCR, sure they aren't great but they seem like the lesser evil in this case. I don't have much of a huge point to make since I'm not much of a debater, but independence seems like it would end in chaos, as would House's outcome, the legion is focused on slavery and brutality, the NCR may be rude to people, but in my eyes they're the best available chance.

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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:31 pm

@TheHulksCousin: I thought the NCR asked for BOS destruction too

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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:21 pm

@DVAted You can convince them to form an alliance if Hardin is not put in charge of the BOS.
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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:55 pm

I have noticed that during most of my playthroughs, I tend to become allied with the NCR, but I tend to go for an independent Mojave. I do not think I could ever side with the Legion or House, even if I was playing an evil character. The NCR tend to come across to me as a purely expansionist government, wanting to control all they survey.

Maybe I just like causing trouble and then sneaking off while everyone else has to sort the mess out XD
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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:44 pm

I've also disagreed with the order to destroy the B.O.S. but that was due to Obsidian's lazyiness and incompetency. There was a cut alternative option of saving/sparing the B.O.S. with House support and there are some mods that have restored that option fully. SO knowing that, I vote Mr. House.

It's wrong to label Mr. House as evil.
Did you even pick apart his arguments and actions?

First thing in his favor is that he saved my ass. He didn't need to do that. Really. My head had a new hole in it. I don't recall a single other Fallout 3 or NV character or faction to pull me out of my grave and put so much faith in me to fulfill their life-long dream.

Second thing is that he doesn't consider me a mercenary. I quote:
"I'm not offering you an incentive as crude as money - though there'll be plenty of that. What I'm offering you is a ground-floor opportunity in the most important enterprise on Earth. What I'm offering is a future - for you, and for what remains of the human race."

Just check out that vocabulary and demeanor! He's impeccable!

He's a visionary, he's a hopeful dreamer who got off his proverbial ass and actually does something for the future, not for the present. He sees and works for more than merely survival or control, he fights for progression, evolution, advancement; in his own words:
"Give me 20 years and I'll reignite the high technology development sectors. 50 years and I'll have people in orbit."

Those are his goals! Not territory control. Not being the ruler of the land.
Not invading other places. He's working for the people, for the human race:

That was what really changed my mind about him.

As for the popular choice, NCR, I finished my first play-through with them, but I'm not sure about my current run. I mean, I may follow the Dam battle with NCR after all, I wouldn't want to kill them all and they're clearly a better choice than the Legion. House could use their firepower against Caesar. But my loyalty lies with House. I think he should make the decisions.

I see corrupt governments every day everywhere. They're a plague to the human race.
It's a warfare based regime. Look at USA:
 
Did you know oil lobbyist persuaded the US Gov. to kill the electric car industry for over a century? Well we all know the US Gov. bailed out the corrupt bankers and put hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes, on their asses, bankrupt. Even as far back as the 1100's when the Arab society was seeing an immense intellectual and scientific uprising, "the powers that be" claimed math books are the work of the devil and that halted their progress by even a millennium and it's still ongoing. That's exactly what NCR promises. The rich corrupt interests safely guarded while the greater good is stomped on. They already would back the casino tribe's interests against that of House and you know this. It's already started!

What really caught my loyalty to the House is when he said:
"If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows."
I did, I actually walked up to the windows of his penthouse and looked out. I was horrified. The quote "War, War Never Changes" struck me!
Anything that was still standing was because Robert Edwin House took out 68 of the 77 nuclear warheads heading for the city. Everything that was broken as far as I could see and beyond, all across the globe, was because of the divisive politics of the old world leaders, politics that NCR and the Legion still sustain.

Politicians will always be dirty, lying, hypocritical assholes. Put one in jail, 3 more rise up to take his place, his connections, his "benefits", his power and influence, and they almost always use it for personal gain rather than for the good of the people. And the young ones learn the crooked ropes really fucking fast, and they go further than their predecessors. I have worked with lawyers, prosecutors, judges, lawmakers, politicians, mayors. The righteous ones are opposed by the crooked system and removed if they don't mend. The ones that cede once, will always do it again, once their character breaks its shell and gets infected they have nothing stopping them from failing his or her own principles and values again and again and again, be it for self-interest, political/party interest, greed, blackmail or simple misguidance, with complete disregard to what's right to do.

They'll always get rich off of the poor and the sickly, off of the addicts and the meek, through dishonesty and mass manipulation. There are good people in NCR, of course, but then again there were some excellent gentlemen as Nazi officers and colonels in World War II, who were just following orders or those who have had nothing to do with the camps and gassing innocents.

At its core NCR is based on a divisive system, keeping the poor at the bottom and making the rich even richer, way above and beyond the purpose of law, promoting their ranks solely on namesake and affiliation rather than merit. Just like the B.O.S. they don't give a shit about collateral damage and "outsiders".

In relation to the Fiends or Great Khans, how are the NCR any different than the Enclave? I'll tell you how: they're weaker in numbers, technology and leadership coordination. I'm not saying I would ever side with the Enclave, but at least they didn't stretch so far as to condemn entire squadrons of their own men and entire towns (like in Nelson, Searchlight and Nipton) because of lack of manpower and equipment. They were more humane and intelligent than that.

One man can make a difference: one man with knowledge that stretches 261 years, with a scientific mind (father of RobCo Industries), with natural leadership (he's built the most successful corporation in his name and civilized the casino tribes), with an undenying genius in technology and economy and sheer force of will (he's looked 200 years for the platinum chip and never gave up on it).

And he's not a dictator figure. He doesn't care if people worship him. It's not his face on the Securitron's displays. He doesn't call in people to kneel before him and pray to him and praise him. He stays in all alone and watches patiently from above. He'd rather have the courier take all the glory and get all the praise. He just wants to put people back in their own homes, in schools and engineering colleges, in factories and on the moon.

The others don't impress me half as much as Mr. House does. Based on his own words:
"To your untrained eyes, it may look as though mankind is making a comeback. In the NCR, you have something that resembles a nation state. Savage as it is, in Caesar's Legion, you have an organized society. But neither of these offer a future. They're regurgitations of the past."
And they only lead to more war.

If you take Mr. House out of his stasis chamber, he will ask you why you have ruined his plans and he will react differently depending on what you tell him:
- If you say you did it in the name of the NCR, he will belittle them and call you a "sad, misguided whore"
- If you tell him you are acting on behalf of Caesar, he will be horrified that slavery is humanity's future.
- If you say you did it for Yes Man, he will tell you your "vanity project" is doomed for failure.
- If you say it was just business, he will retort by saying that you should have worked for him for personal gain.
- Finally, if you say you did it just because you didn't like him, he will call you a fool for letting your feelings about him jeopardize humanity's future.

I never killed him, but I took that from his wikia page.

I feel that although he praises "dispassionate calculation" to reach success, a lot of his motivation is in the love for and faith in mankind. He's seen the horrors and managed the damage and he still believes people are worth saving, that they're smart enough to handle new technology and that under his leadership he'll prevent them from using it against each other.

Age and information brings wisdom, and though a lot of Ghouls have rotted their memories along with parts of their brain, his genial brain capacity is ever more extended through the use of his computers.

His obituary said:
"Lost forever is his bounty of knowledge concerning human longevity, the depth and breadth of which could, as he was apt to say, <fill several text books>. He was not exaggerating."

I think he really follows the goals of the DC Brotherhood of Steel of fighting the Good Fight, and when he seems like he's ready to kill anyone opposing him he's no different than the Knights were, all suited up and ready to battle. But he picked up the savages from the streets and gave them enterprises to run. That's the most important principle current politicians and those of NCR are forgetting - it's not about your own well-being, it's about the current and future generation's well-being.

Also I'd like to think I'll bring even more humanity to his method if I remain loyal to him.
Independently I wouldn't be able to manage what he does. By his side I could steer him away from unnecessary violence and "dispassionate calculations" that could bring possible negative outcomes, and I will appeal to his reason and intelligence, not to his greed or mercy. He would never cast out a good well formed argument without a better counter-argument and superior calculation. And he's not above appreciating humanity and compassion.

Yes, I lobby for Mr. House because not enough of you took the time to hear him out and envision his side of the story. Because you'd rather settle for what you know, although it's utterly broken, than to take into account the risks and rewards of an intelligent, capable, incorruptible mind set on not only ensuring the future, but making it better and brighter than before.

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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:40 pm

@DVAted, that is a really good explained summary you did right there. Couldn't agree more. NCR also taught me to hate the Republican party, seeing that they're only in it for their own self-interests. Even though you and I may not share the same beliefs in House's governance for New Vegas as his securitrons had to charge a toll just to enter the strip, I passed that with a science speak-check, but it's a well written point. The Grand Old Party(GOP) from what I know in real life, outlawed slavery once, but only so 'they' could eventually take up slaves. America is a corrupt society indeed, mostly their governments. The cycle of history and war repeats itself. Even if Germany had corrupt officials before World War II, there's no doubt alot of governments out there are backstabbing slaver little fucks with alot of money and in some cases, hired guns, mercenaries, etc.

But if 'I' were to establish a connection between New Vegas and my faction, it's good to see that House is not a political tyrant or so few believe, but I'm the kind of ruler that wants his people to make decisions for themselves, and I'll weigh in on anything if for instance, congress tries to pass bills in the name of corruption, etc. My goals are to repair society, build new homes for the sickly, the weak, the homeless, to end the long battle of Hoover Dam by making it a defeat for both sides. I want to establish a people's government, not one of those governments that select only a few politicians or anything like that. But most importantly, I for one will not rule over people's lives like NCR or the Legion does. I rather be the kind of ruler that watches out for his people, and protect his people. I seek justice for all, but of course there must be a law of balance that prevents people from slaughtering themselves.

But again, you made a really good point. +1 from me to you.

EDIT : Also for those of you who favored the Brotherhood of Steel, I too have. Though I'm sorry to say, but even some of the BoS treat the ghouls in the capital wasteland rather unfairly. Just pointing out that BoS are not 100% saints in this matter. They were the good guys in FO3, though like any other character I got to know in Bethesda's games, there's always a slight infraction of others.

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PostSubject: Re: Who do you beat Fallout new vegas with?   Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:01 pm

DVAted - That's probably the best argued post on NV factions I've read. Too bad I can only +1 it once.

I agree with your criticisms of the NCR. I think it's easy to side with them and view the game as NCR (good guys) vs Legion (bad guys), but this is quite superficial. Every faction has a redeeming feature upon which you can focus if you want to side with them, and every faction has its flaws. If you listen to Achilles's dialogue in CNR, he explains this rather succinctly.

I think more people don't side with House because his character and faction simply aren't attractive. Who feels cool playing a game in the service of a nerdy computer screen supported by Jetson's style robot guards?

If mr house had a cyborg avatar with whom you interacted and the securitrons were more like something from the terminator series, he'd have a much higher surface appeal.

I usually played the game right up until the point you alienated yourself from certain factions. I found ways to stay in the good graces of everyone long enough to loot their safehouses, then I'd stick a c4 on caesar's pocket and walk away.

I did, however, do at least one play with every faction to get the achievement. When I played for the legion, I played as a female as a little f-you to caesar's sexist regime.

In my next play, I have an alternate story in mind. I'll share another time.
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