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 Question for seasoned Fallout modders.

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JaySpectacular



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PostSubject: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:47 pm

:hellobig: So, I haven't posted in a while. I've been rather chill and just posting here and there as i feel the need. However when i read some of the topics here made about modding in general i always seem to get this feeling of "modder superiority" from seasoned modders. Not from Dragbody but other modders like wiejiesen and such. I'm in no way trying to start an uproar or a bunch of hateful comments. I'm just wondering why it doesn't seem like these modders are humble? I once had this opinion of vgu and the nexus but those opinions have evolved into thinking that it is only some people and not everybody. What I'm trying to ask here is, why does it seem like some modders have superiority over other modders? isn't this community a family of those who share a love for modifying new vegas? and not a "I released on of the best mods on new vegas nuh nuh nuh." Big Slap

Oh and DVAted my writing skills are horrible.  Facepalm  Aside from being partial -ignant-erhm arrogant I do want to just ask a question in positive light if it devolves to "STFU bro you don't even mod" then it wasn't my fault lol!

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Tesvixen



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:29 pm

Sadly there's going to be elitism/arrogance in any walk of life.. jobs, gaming, modding, everything.  Some people become good at something and decide they're the best thing since sliced bread, and some people are awesome but stay humble/appreciative of those who support their work.

Dragbody is a great example of a skilled modder who is also a very helpful, pleasant person.  And I don't have any 'ego' issues as it relates to my mods, because I know that I wouldn't be able to do half of what I do without the help of people like him (Drag).  

In fact every single modder here stands on the shoulders of someone else.  Its not like we made our own version of Fallout from scratch and are modding that.  

And yeah we've got our duds like any other community.  I won't drop names but chances are, I don't have to.  Peoples' posts speak for themselves.

Thankfully the awesome people more than make up for them... which is why I still post here.


Last edited by Tesvixen on Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dio Brando



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:41 pm

I am sorry, but could you show me the topic where all that stuff happened? Because I've never noticed such thing here and VGU does look to me as a big friendly family and when one releases his mod, his common addition to the post is "I hope you'll enjoy it" rather than "Check this, I'm cool". Maybe I have missed something.

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dragbody



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:05 pm

@JaySpectacular

I have to disagree with you--especially as you've named one of my friends, weijiesen.

As a modder, people like him, me, tesvixen, and others get blasted with PMs with requests of all kinds. "Can you teach me how to do x" and "I know you're really busy but can you just make y for me?"

These messages cause a couple of different feelings for us. First, we want to help, but we mod in our spare time. There simply isn't enough time to meet requests and still actually get any modding done.

Second, most modders are self-taught. We've learned what we have through hard word and dedication. Therefore, we know that others can learn the same way. Or, if not, then modding skills may simply be outside of one's potential skill set.

Before I began modding, I PMed toxa and asked him to teach me. He never replied. So what did I do? I figured it out.

I feel bad not being able to meet more requests and create tutorials, but I barely have time to mod anymore as it is so it's hard. For example, I've devoted my entire weekend to modding and I've got five requests I aimed to get done. I'm almost done with #4 and then I'll move onto #5. But will I have time to actually mod anything new others can use? Probably not.

Any kind of arrogance you may feel coming from modders is probably just their attempt to maintain focus and get things done.
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Tesvixen



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:21 pm

@dragbody wrote:
I feel bad not being able to meet more requests and create tutorials

Which is silly, because you do more for the modding community of these games than pretty much anyone. :p

And for the record I was not agreeing with the OP about Weijiesen, who I don't know from a hole in the wall.  I was just addressing the concern in general.
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weijiesen



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:24 pm

I'd like to see a link to an example of this Smile

My PM box on nexus has 500 messages from various users, all of which I've taken the time to help.
Care to see it?

Fact is, Macintroll, TheThirdType, Calbal, AlexScorpion, VT01, Tapioks, and many other modders I've worked with would likely tell you the opposite of your assumption about me ^^

I believe you are in fact confusing ''enthusiasm & marketing'' with egotism.

ie: When something like explosions, or new weapons look cool, then it is stated how cool they are (as in the assets themselves.)

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Tesvixen



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:27 pm

@weijiesen wrote:
ie: When something like explosions, or new weapons look cool, then it is stated how cool they are (as in the assets themselves.)

Yep, I do this too, though usually in a sarcastic/ridiculous way... like calling Peanut the french bulldog pup "an unholy terror that will destroy your soul" when I sent it to a friend. closed eyes smile
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Dio Brando



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:35 pm

@weijiesen
That's why I asked him about the topic with, let's call them, evidences. If there were problems with anything like this, then it couldn't be kept in secret for so long. It's very important for us to keep the VGU's name clean, every approved member has to be fair and honorable, as it's our duty to make this place friendly and peaceful. Nobody will be mocked here and we won't let anyone down. I've never posted a single mod here and I've never seen any modder being rude or arrogant with me because of that, not now when I'm a staff member, not back then (and when I've asked for help, I've received it instantly). It means something, right? It means that everyone is equal.

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mpaz96



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:54 pm

@JaySpectacular I think you are "judging a book by it's cover" since you don't really know these people. Of course, you can tell a lot by a person by his/her posts, I once saw some guy (in the nexus I think, but I don't remember really) who said he would make mods in exchange for money and I didn't think that was cool at all. Anyway, if you met weijiesen maybe you would see that he's a cool guy. And you can meet a lot of modders that will help you, for example, Cruz011 has helped me a LOT and even after all the help I've asked him (he's probably tired of me closed eyes smile) he still helps me out whenever I need him.

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DVAted



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:01 pm

I think Jay may refer to what's been said in this topic:
http://www.gunetwork.org/t3484p30-ewi-is-gone#69222

partially I agree. simply because someone is not as original or hard-working as "you" (a theoretical <you> here) doesn't mean he or she is inferior or that you're a superior human being. a better modder, sure, but not a better individual. only comparison that should be made of a person is to who he or she used be.

I too dislike it when people act like they're the hand of god over people, and if I ever, unintentionally, sounded that way, I expect to be corrected and criticized for it. for example, when a member posts a topic in the wrong section, with an unrelated title, I might turn to a sarcastic tone... but  X.X  I'll try harder to be courteous even in the most dire situations TongueTril  we live and we learn, and it's okay to admit being wrong

on the other hand, I know weiji doesn't have the habit to blast people like that, it just must've been a sensitive subject for him.

I don't think this topic's OP is about requests, as dragbody tried to make it as
I think it's fair to expect everybody, even "seasoned modders" to not let success go to their head.
but as Tesvixen well said, that happens in every domain of human enterprise.

We are all noobs at something, and we were all noobs at everything at one point  Banana Dance and it's good to be reminded that every now and then

Now, regarding the "seasoned" modders who might have felt offended here, drop the saintly defense and aim toward mutual progress and common good, even if you personally consider you haven't transgressed in this direction so far.

Best regards Thumbs Up

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Last edited by DVAted on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cruz011



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:25 pm

@mpaz96 - hehehehehe i am not tired of you my friend. i am not a big modder like dragbody or weijiesen .... there are lot more. but i can do what i can do. and i learned it all by myself. looking tutorials and so on..,

some guys here think its so easy doing all this stuff and its done in 10 min. they give request and wait for the result. but it needs a lot of time doing some retextures or rigging models.

i am waiting a month and longer for @hitman47101 doing me some animations for the cybershotgun i want to release (i hope you read this brow hehehehe lol). but i know he is so busy with other things that have priority.

to @dragbody - this guy is unbeliveable. he runs over 5 projects in the same time + releasing an awsome update + taking care of his release (if there are some issues he had look over again and again and the projects are not finished). nobody paid him for that.
not to forget all we here had a real life. jobs, school, friend, wifes and childern, so what we are doing here is the free time we had for us to do something we like to do.

@mpaz96- i like this guy. why? because he is very enthusiam about learning stuff. he try first by his own and then ask if he stuck. i wish that more guys are like him cause someday he will know something i needed to know. and he will help me too.

thats all for me sorry for the grammer issues if someone had a question pleas pm me hehehe no no no just a joke lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:30 pm

@Cruz011

Jeez has it been a mouth already? haha

I'll make what you need today. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:32 pm

@DVAted

I didn't take the thread to be about requests. I know it's about attitudes, but I think folks who aren't modders need to take into account the way that the constant flow of requests colors the attitudes of modders. The way modders relate to the community is going to be different than the way gamers relate to it. In fact, many modders don't even get to play the game anymore (hence why I always appreciate screenshots where my mods are being used).

Ah, well, that's not one coherent thought. It's kind of a few thoughts thrown together. Forgive me.

I got a PM earlier today from someone saying "please could you answer me?" I don't even know what the question was. Forumotion doesn't let you hold many PMs and whatever the original message was from this person is gone. Does this person now think I'm aloof? Maybe.
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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:35 pm

@hitman47101 wrote:
@Cruz011

Jeez has it been a mouth already? haha

I'll make what you need today. Smile

i stop counting the days hahahahahah lol!

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maybenexttime



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:45 pm

Well regarding Ewi65, people are a bit sensitive about this topic for number of reasons.

A. Ewi65 stole people's work and called it his own despite being warned by the moderators several times
B. Ewi65 doesn't make textures he uses textures from websites and wraps it around the mesh (it doesn't work well like this), this also leads to problem A.
C. Ewi65 constantly spams the recent files and takes up the hot file space thus potentially hiding another worthy mod out of the spotlight

A lot of big time texture artists including Mil told him things such as upscaling and sharpening is not true HD. When they actually opened up his files, they were horrified on what they saw.

Some modders are annoyed that a lot of people give Ewi65 a lot of credit for stolen work. I have never seen someone like Weijiesen come off as a superior modder. Anyone who had extended conversations with him will acknowledge that this dude is one of the most helpful persons on the Nexus. He makes wonders happen and shares his work. But, yes there are some who like to feel like they are above the rest, but that is going to happen no matter what.


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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:47 pm

@dragbody wrote:
@DVAted

I didn't take the thread to be about requests. I know it's about attitudes, but I think folks who aren't modders need to take into account the way that the constant flow of requests colors the attitudes of modders. The way modders relate to the community is going to be different than the way gamers relate to it. In fact, many modders don't even get to play the game anymore (hence why I always appreciate screenshots where my mods are being used).

Ah, well, that's not one coherent thought. It's kind of a few thoughts thrown together. Forgive me.

I got a PM earlier today from someone saying "please could you answer me?" I don't even know what the question was. Forumotion doesn't let you hold many PMs and whatever the original message was from this person is gone. Does this person now think I'm aloof? Maybe.

Someone who pays attention to the community won't think that way, especially since you're a top modder on Nexus and VGU closed eyes smile
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DVAted



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:05 pm

@maybenexttime wrote:
Well regarding Ewi65, people are a bit sensitive about this topic for number of reasons.
[...]
I locked that topic for a reason.
No point in bringing it back in full detail here, or carrying the accusation further.
It's of no concern to this topic, to this forum or to this community.
When he'll be here to share his thoughts we might allow the subject.
But we don't attack people like that in their absence. I won't say this again.

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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:12 pm

@JaySpectacular wrote:
:hellobig: So, I haven't posted in a while. I've been rather chill and just posting here and there as i feel the need. However when i read some of the topics here made about modding in general i always seem to get this feeling of "modder superiority" from seasoned modders. Not from Dragbody but other modders like wiejiesen and such. I'm in no way trying to start an uproar or a bunch of hateful comments. I'm just wondering why it doesn't seem like these modders are humble? I once had this opinion of vgu and the nexus but those opinions have evolved into thinking that it is only some people and not everybody. What I'm trying to ask here is, why does it seem like some modders have superiority over other modders? isn't this community a family of those who share a love for modifying new vegas? and not a "I released on of the best mods on new vegas nuh nuh nuh." Big Slap

Oh and DVAted my writing skills are horrible.  Facepalm  Aside from being partial -ignant-erhm arrogant I do want to just ask a question in positive light if it devolves to "STFU bro you don't even mod" then it wasn't my fault lol!

Define "superiority". They act as if they're better than other modders or.. ? Are these opinions on their persons based off of how some of them respond to criticism toward their mods ? Or PM's ? Or certain comments they've made ? I don't think most modders really wanna act as if they're above anyone, in any way. No one should mod, to wanna feel a sense of accomplishment or to feel lordly. A lot of people are gonna mod for the wrong reasons, but none of them, especially, should be to boost your ego.

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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:46 am

Wow. Reading this section really made me think and gave me some insight on modding in general. On the Ewi thing, I feel really dirty that I have these Textures and now know these were stolen. Man, and to think this Ewi guy actually had some talent even if "his" textures didn't appeal to everyone. I just want to say that Drag, Weji, and all the other modders that gave us these mods, gave life to Fallout. If it wasn't mainly for you guys, Fallout wouldn't be in the state it is in today. I understand that you guys don't really have that much time to mod because of personal reason, and that some of you guys don't even get to just sit down and play New Vegas( or any game really ). That further makes me more grateful that you guys put the effort into making these mods to put smiles on the faces of fellow Fallout players, and making the game look like it came out in 2012( cause really, the base game can't really support your type of texturing ). All and all, I just want to say thank you. Joy Dance


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Really hope I don't sound like an ass kisser. Cause I genuinely meant what I said.Thumbs Up


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JaySpectacular



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PostSubject: Re: Question for seasoned Fallout modders.    Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:10 am

Guys I love all of you, I'm just reflecting on what i've read today. I'm just talking about how some modders in my opinion seem to uphold themselves in a regard that isn't so kind. I'm not bashing any seasoned modder. I only name dropped wiejiesen because he's the first name that came to mind. Dude makes excellent work along with the other excellent modders. I'm just making a topic that answers not only my question but other like minded people in the community. I shone a light on the "negative" of modding and asked for a conversation that pushed you all to not only support or disagree with my opinion but to show me how this community thought about the "psuedo-elitism" of the nexus or vgu modding website. I love making topics that push us here but positively so it won't get locked and discarded. All of you did me a favor for answering me.

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