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 Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining

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Storyteller



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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:41 pm

This is probably my largest gripe about the game. After hearing the story given to many of the factions, especially the Rangers of the NCR, I can't for the life of me figure out why Bethesda would neglect the opportunity to join the NCR's military.

It would substantially increase replayablity if each faction had a separate pipeline considering you couldn't join the Legion if a member of the NCR.

Where I would have to differ on opinion would be rising to the ranks of General. While rising through ranks and pay grades would be great, the player character best serves in a capacity where he travels and gets things done. Unless a new tier of quests unlocked at the top ranks, involving strategic and logistic decisions like building a new base or populating an old one (like searchlight) where you have to make deals with contractors to figure logistics out, or maybe gain tech advantages like finding a small fleet of vertibirds to give a hand in the war.

Still, Skyrim's faction questlines tend to feel empty once you make it to the top unless modded. I am infinitely more interested in the idea of being able to serve as your common grunt for a few patrol quests until being spotted by someone from 1st Recon, to serve as a Sniper/Spotter for quests like High Value target assassinations and overwatch for a reconnaissance operation before a combat mission . The mod could take a leaf from Skyrim and develop a nickname for the player character (like the civil war quests did) to help take advantage of voice acting, maybe Arrow or Ace which would be fitting for a Sniper in 1st Recon. Additional side quests and activities could be found in NCR camps, maybe marksmanship competitions, games of caravan with the squad, and boxing matches as well as some additional dialogue driven quests to help build a relationship with these characters and your squad ("Promise me you'll deliver this letter to my girl if anything happens etc") eventually the 1st Recon element would be wiped out in what was supposed to be a routine mission as you hear them over the radio getting wiped out one by one until you and your last comrade stand together and fight (lets say against a legion ambush, led by a rival from the opposing faction) being the lone survivor both makes you a hero that stands out, and burdens you with guilt. This is where the player can be approached by perhaps Chief Hanlon (if available or a replacement) who recruits the player for the Rangers, having distinguished himself as an excellent individual combatant. A quick talk on the loss of comrades, and while nothing can bring them back...he can promise the player a rugged life with the chance to send more legion to the grave. Quick black screen with a misc note can substitute the 8 weeks of training.

The player would arrive to a Ranger outpost to meet his new unit, unconventional and deadly as they are (much like our own modern special operation forces) the missions would actually involve ranging the frontier, more high value target assassinations through sniping, vault/dungeon delving and maybe even the discovery of the salvageable vertibirds which would lead to quests like mentioned above (bringing searchlight into operation again under the NCR). Eventually this outfit of Rangers makes a name for themselves, and legion starts posting bounties and death warrants, something the player and his squad take advantage of, placing ambushes that lead to an eventual face to face confrontation with the Legionnaire who wiped out the player's 1st Recon squad.

The main story finally culminated and finished, the character now a legendary war hero, additional side quests like training a new Ranger, sending the rangers out on mission, delivering that letter you promised you would to your buddy's wife would really all make for a wonderfully written and integrated mod that would make you feel like a real part of the NCR. I understand I went off on a tangent here, I apologize if I am long winded but I found the ideas presented in this thread to be outstanding and remarkable. Quest culmination would be great if Fallout had a radial quest system like Skyrim, this way continual quest missions could be produced and the player's "lifetime of battle" never really ends.
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farlas816



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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:02 pm

Very nice, well thought out concept, except for, I don't know, having the First Recon wiped out doesn't seem right to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:00 am

The entire First Recon batallion sure, that would be unlikely, but a squad sized element? Hardly unlikely at all, especially against overwhelming odds. If anything that romanticizes that operation and makes the hero stand out even more. Builds an emotional connection with the story and develops an interesting reason for the character to choose to move on from the unit. Better than say: "You're a good 1st Recon soldier. Join the rangers." or "You were the new guy, now you're in charge." This is coming from the aspect of telling an engaging story however that affects the player emotionally as well as having practical benefits. The instant gratification of defeating everything in your path without a challenge irks me and does not present tense moments.

Of course maybe I'm just crazy cowboy
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farlas816



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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:05 am

@Storyteller wrote:
The entire First Recon batallion sure, that would be unlikely, but a squad sized element? Hardly unlikely at all, especially against overwhelming odds. If anything that romanticizes that operation and makes the hero stand out even more. Builds an emotional connection with the story and develops an interesting reason for the character to choose to move on from the unit. Better than say: "You're a good 1st Recon soldier. Join the rangers." or "You were the new guy, now you're in charge." This is coming from the aspect of telling an engaging story however that affects the player emotionally as well as having practical benefits. The instant gratification of defeating everything in your path without a challenge irks me and does not present tense moments.

Of course maybe I'm just crazy cowboy
Ok coll, sorry, I was confused about what was being said. I feel like maybe a last stand holdout type thing should happen. One of your people called for reinforcements. You're trying to hold off the legion, who are overrunning your position, and lose your men one by one. Finally, just as your about to lose, NCR reinforcements arrive, possibly in the form of a group of rangers, who then recruit you into their squad.

I also feel like this begs for new armor to go with it, along with new things for random troopers to say.
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:22 am

Queue in epic heroic music and we have one of the most memorable moments in a recent mod. And it would definitely need armor different from "vanilla". The NCR itself is not too disappointing with the NCR rearmament mod, and I definitely feel 1st Recon would have to step out of their habit of wearing berets on the battlefield as that seems silly and impractical, a special set of gear to set them apart when downrange. Still, I'm most disappointed with the vanilla appearance for Rangers, when listening to their description and stories about them one thinks of those more akin to US Army Rangers, special operations personnel. The game gives Rangers the feeling of cowboy, even though they may hail from Texas Rangers, they are still a part of the NCR military and should be seen as such.

The feels received from Dragbody's sampler, the Medal of Honor and Battlefield 4 armor sets a completely different standard, even saying Ranger on the sleeve. Rangers were certainly in need of a makeover, both physically and culturally. They need equipment and the presence of Tier 1 special operation personnel.

Well darn, aren't we productive?
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farlas816



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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:56 pm

@Storyteller wrote:
Queue in epic heroic music and we have one of the most memorable moments in a recent mod. And it would definitely need armor different from "vanilla". The NCR itself is not too disappointing with the NCR rearmament mod, and I definitely feel 1st Recon would have to step out of their habit of wearing berets on the battlefield as that seems silly and impractical, a special set of gear to set them apart when downrange. Still, I'm most disappointed with the vanilla appearance for Rangers, when listening to their description and stories about them one thinks of those more akin to US Army Rangers, special operations personnel. The game gives Rangers the feeling of cowboy, even though they may hail from Texas Rangers, they are still a part of the NCR military and should be seen as such.

The feels received from Dragbody's sampler, the Medal of Honor and Battlefield 4 armor sets a completely different standard, even saying Ranger on the sleeve. Rangers were certainly in need of a makeover, both physically and culturally. They need equipment and the presence of Tier 1 special operation personnel.

Well darn, aren't we productive?  
And here is where we disagree. I am personally against going for anything to...tactical looking. I feel like (minus the hats) the ranger patrol Armour with perhaps some variations should be fine. As for the first recon, I feel like they should all have very personalized armor sets.
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blivit270



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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:00 pm

@farlas816 wrote:
@Storyteller wrote:
Queue in epic heroic music and we have one of the most memorable moments in a recent mod. And it would definitely need armor different from "vanilla". The NCR itself is not too disappointing with the NCR rearmament mod, and I definitely feel 1st Recon would have to step out of their habit of wearing berets on the battlefield as that seems silly and impractical, a special set of gear to set them apart when downrange. Still, I'm most disappointed with the vanilla appearance for Rangers, when listening to their description and stories about them one thinks of those more akin to US Army Rangers, special operations personnel. The game gives Rangers the feeling of cowboy, even though they may hail from Texas Rangers, they are still a part of the NCR military and should be seen as such.

The feels received from Dragbody's sampler, the Medal of Honor and Battlefield 4 armor sets a completely different standard, even saying Ranger on the sleeve. Rangers were certainly in need of a makeover, both physically and culturally. They need equipment and the presence of Tier 1 special operation personnel.

Well darn, aren't we productive?  
And here is where we disagree. I am personally against going for anything to...tactical looking. I feel like (minus the hats) the ranger patrol Armour with perhaps some variations should be fine. As for the first recon, I feel like they should all have very personalized armor sets.

I feel like a mixture of both of you, I just feel that the Rangers were...cowboys and did not really feel like the idea of any SO at all, and if the game didn't tell me who they were I'D feel like they were just strange misfit mercenaries, But in the solution of going full out tactical with them, I'm actually against because it does pull them away from their lore which I find to be Important, But the Middle ground answer might be a lot simpler, If I was skilled in the geck or nifscope I'd add the regular trooper Armored breast plate (you guys know the only armor the vanilla Troopers have) just the breast plate over their cowboy out fits, level list in helmets and reversed caps instead of just the cowboy hats, And If the torso part of the Ranger patrol armor could be placed on the merc grunt outfit or even the Trooper Fatigues I think I'd fit really well, And the veteran rangers, I will probably recieve a death threat for this, but I hate the trench coat, I'd say get the trooper armor slap some Camo on it, do my best to remove that skirt part of it tho, add the riot armor they wear under the duster to it, some knee pads and the helmet is awesome as is

now I know this is my personal taste and I could never make it, but maybe it'd influence someone else

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:33 pm

@farlas816 wrote:

And here is where we disagree. I am personally against going for anything to...tactical looking. I feel like (minus the hats) the ranger patrol Armour with perhaps some variations should be fine. As for the first recon, I feel like they should all have very personalized armor sets.

That is perfectly fine, disagreement and productive discussion leads to an eventual consensus. I think we may also share a different view in how we feel concerning the nature of First Recon. First Recon, while made of excellent shots and proclaimed "NCR Special Forces" still seems entirely more conventional and ingrained into the NCR military, while I would imagine them to have better equipment suitable for their task, I don't see them having the highly personalized equipments that Rangers (in my opinion, should have).

Rangers, who have their own separate chain of command and whose very nature requires long treks out in the wastes (ranging) would make sense to serve unconventionally, since their chain of command knows that the rules are different out in the wastes. Operating with impunity towards uniformity standards and being a little more "guerilla". That being said, blivit does offer some intriguing ideas. I also would like it stated I am not talking about replacing the legendary black armor for veteran rangers, if anything Geonox's black riot armor offers an outstanding replacement for the gear veteran Rangers wear, a mix of that and the Adam veteran ranger replacer still gives that Frontier/Ranger/Cowboy feel while not betraying the feeling of a special operation unit, the best of the best in the NCR military.

The fatigues and gear from Dragbody's mods just felt right because I can't see the Rangers, trekking long distances in riot armor in the mojave when they could substitute it with plate carriers, water, radios, and ammo in lightweight desert pattern fatigues. Something similar would feel right for a mix of Rangers, guys who use what works best rather than a military regulation on uniformity.
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farlas816



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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:15 pm

@Storyteller wrote:
@farlas816 wrote:

And here is where we disagree. I am personally against going for anything to...tactical looking. I feel like (minus the hats) the ranger patrol Armour with perhaps some variations should be fine. As for the first recon, I feel like they should all have very personalized armor sets.

That is perfectly fine, disagreement and productive discussion leads to an eventual consensus. I think we may also share a different view in how we feel concerning the nature of First Recon. First Recon, while made of excellent shots and proclaimed "NCR Special Forces" still seems entirely more conventional and ingrained into the NCR military, while I would imagine them to have better equipment suitable for their task, I don't see them having the highly personalized equipments that Rangers (in my opinion, should have).

Rangers, who have their own separate chain of command and whose very nature requires long treks out in the wastes (ranging) would make sense to serve unconventionally, since their chain of command knows that the rules are different out in the wastes. Operating with impunity towards uniformity standards and being a little more "guerilla". That being said, blivit does offer some intriguing ideas. I also would like it stated I am not talking about replacing the legendary black armor for veteran rangers, if anything Geonox's black riot armor offers an outstanding replacement for the gear veteran Rangers wear, a mix of that and the Adam veteran ranger replacer still gives that Frontier/Ranger/Cowboy feel while not betraying the feeling of a special operation unit, the best of the best in the NCR military.

The fatigues and gear from Dragbody's mods just felt right because I can't see the Rangers, trekking long distances in riot armor in the mojave when they could substitute it with plate carriers, water, radios, and ammo in lightweight desert pattern fatigues. Something similar would feel right for a mix of Rangers, guys who use what works best rather than a military regulation on uniformity.
I feel lie for the rangers you would also need the options of light, medium, heavy and power armors
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:24 pm

Well ladies and gentlemen, after doing a bit of research online I had run into a video of a mod: "Join the NCR". It may be what some of you are looking for. I did not watch the video in its entirety but the mod is voice acted, and allows the player to go through assignments with various outfits including 1st Recon. A simple search via google should lead you directly to it as well as a video on youtube. More than a few voice actors have accents other than American, and while that may break immersion for some, I believe it says a lot about a mod team that put in the time and work for that. I hope this is something that someone will get a kick out of since it does allow you rise in rank and go join the NCR like discussed in the OP.

In the meantime, I'll be familiarizing myself with the modding tools and tutorials available so far to see if I can start producing something worthwhile.

Edit: By the way, the youtube video calls the mod "Join the NCR" however the mod is simply, "The NCR"


Last edited by Storyteller on Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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AceofSnakes



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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:03 am

This mod would be perfect.

I'd be 110% willing to contribute some new stuff to it as well. I'm trying to model some new gear (plate carriers and such) atm, so maybe I can contribute some equipment if it ever becomes a thing.

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ONI Agent Locke



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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:56 am

I'd also be willing to contribute. I can come up with concepts and also do voicework/writing, as I've got plenty of good equipment for it. I can also work G.E.C.K. a little bit as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:44 am

We could feasibly get a small team of modders together, no doubt. Maybe the guy who did the MK117 voice acting and the Insurgency voices... but I'm thinking way too far ahead.

It'd definitely need to have a cinematic-esc (Well, just a good one) story, characters you could actually like, and good equipment/weapons too. It could tie into the main quest quite well, since (With your NCR rep) NCR people already refer to you as a soldier. I think this could turn out to be one of those great Fallout mods.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:17 am

@AceofSnakes wrote:
We could feasibly get a small team of modders together, no doubt. Maybe the guy who did the MK117 voice acting and the Insurgency voices... but I'm thinking way too far ahead.

It'd definitely need to have a cinematic-esc (Well, just a good one) story, characters you could actually like, and good equipment/weapons too. It could tie into the main quest quite well, since (With your NCR rep) NCR people already refer to you as a soldier. I think this could turn out to be one of those great Fallout mods.

I would have to be in agreement with you on the cinematic feel for a story, writing is a passion of mine, and with many of the elements we have discussed we certainly have the outline of a fantastic cinematic, storytelling experience that truly makes the player feel that they are a part of something larger. Most importantly, it emphasizes the characters along side the player and the player themselves are total bad asses, and builds emotional connections with npcs.

I think we are on to something great my friends, with proper time and dedication, and the right team of people this mod has more than enough potential to become something...dare I say it? Wondrous.

I'll look into buying a really decent microphone next week, when my pockets aren't crying after the holidays.
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:35 am

I can be counted out of V.A. (Unless the age for enlistment in the NCR has gone down closed eyes smile ) but I can dedicate alot of my time to making models. I'm relatively novice at it but my skills are increasing. Plus I have tons of ideas in my head for differnet types of NCR armor. Troopers & Rangers.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:53 am

If you guys need a writer for dialogue or story scenarios I wouldn't mind volunteering my time.

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:15 pm

Wow, this could like, actually be something, to think this started off as a "wouldn't that be cool" thread...

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:16 pm

Also, if I got a decent mic I could voice dialogue. I could also design the interior of buildings with clutter and furniture and stuff...

Edit: Oh yeah, and I could write some stuff as well, but probobly not dialogue...
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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:18 am

I've got some ideas for some humorous dialogue, and a few marine guys I know have been 110% willing to contribute some of theirs.

I was telling Matticus about an idea, which is basically a Robobrain's Brain inside a Mister Gutsy, the brain being that of an old marine with a Sergeant Hartman/ Sgt.Maj. Plumley sort of attitude.

Plumley:
 

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PostSubject: Re: Fallout NCR Bootcamp/Joining    Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:25 am

@AceofSnakes wrote:
I've got some ideas for some humorous dialogue, and a few marine guys I know have been 110% willing to contribute some of theirs.

Plumley:
 

An eccentric Sergeant Major alone would make being a grunt trooper entirely worth it. That is exactly the type of thing needed to set the mod and characters apart. I've no issue drawing on personal experiences or writing up immersive scenarios and would love to hear everybody elses. Grunt stories are always (this is a scientific fact) a blast to hear.
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