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 Vehicles in Fallout

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stoobygacks

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PostSubject: Vehicles in Fallout    Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:33 am

Good Evening GUN!
I was thinking how the addition of vehicles in the next Fallout installments would effect the game's mechanics.

How would quests revolve around them? Would there be perks for vehicles? What about repair, gas, parts? What about VATS? Could characters have their companions have their own characters? Faction vehicles? Old world tanks, APCs, vertibirds, luxury cars? Or all Mad Max style?

So many questions right! But those are aspects of the game that I would expect vehicles to effect. I know there are mods that add vehicles, but what if it was added in intentionally. I think it would be an interesting idea. Imagine an NCR convoy or armored division rolling across the desert to secure a town? Or legion motorcycles and dirt bikes zipping across Utah to scout for tribes to conquer.

I think that it could be a good addition to the Fallout games...If done right.

What do you guys think? Could it be fun? What could go wrong? Tell me your thoughts.

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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:43 am

There were vehicles in fallout 2, you could drive cars and power them with fusion cells. They would make a good addition to the games but on the current engine they were lazy with fallout 4 I don't see them returning without mods.
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:33 am

@Enclave216 I am specifically referring to vehicles being added in future Fallout games ie Fallout 5 or what ever its called.

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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:23 am

Call me a pessimist, but I don't see it working well. Vehicles would be very fun, but hard to pull off. The thing about Fallout games is there is rarely good terrain for them as it's mostly debris and un-even terrain with a lot of rocks and dead trees. The problem with implementing vehicles is that in order for them to be useful/worthwhile, walking would need to be pretty much useless. For example, you'd need a large open area with little to no obstacles to truly have an enjoyable vehicle situation. A simple drive down the street isn't fun at all. Vehicles would need large open areas and that would make those areas basically meaningless for walking. You can't really have it fit both styles. If you want it to be fun/good for going on foot, you'd need things to do in those large empty spaces as running is not fun by itself. You'd need buildings, enemies, and locations in your path. Enough to entertain you while you run. With obstacles like those, there isn't really room to drive. You'd need those to be spaced apart so you have room, but in doing so, it renders running a tedious task. Can you imagine having to run across large empty areas on foot? Imagine it like going on foot in the car areas in Borderlands. It's just not really viable for being on foot as it's designed for vehicles.

I'd be very interesting in seeing how it would play out, but I'm just not hopeful. I can see the potential in it like customizing your own cars and making mobile bases, but the problem I listed above is a serious obstacle. The map would have to conform to both vehicles and walking and that would most likely leave the map very linear.

Then there is always the problem of an NPC running you over. That would definitely happen a lot and would be very frustrating. Another problem would be how to handle all the vehicles in the world. There would have to be some form of limit as that many cars driving around would lead to performance issues.

I could see bikes and horses as they are small and easily maneuverable through tight areas, but bigger vehicles need bigger areas and that just hurts on-foot.

The XRE mod worked for NV because there was already wide open empty spaces, but that map design also led to its own problems for NV.
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:32 pm

@Wertologist You make several really good points mate and I agree 100%, especially on the borderlands comparison.

Another thing to note is the size of the map, the size of the maps in previous games aren't nearly big enough for vehicles to be worthwhile. Now, they're certainly not small by any means, they're actually quite large for a map that was designed for on "on-foot" experience.

Bethesda would really need to expand several aspects of their terrain design if they were to implement vehicles into the Fallout series, and I don't see that happening as due to the setting of a post apocalyptic world.

As much as I'd love to pimp out a mad max type of vehicle in fallout, I don't see it as a viable option.

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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:11 pm

Tanks would be cool. Debris on the road in your way? Just run it over. Easy-peasy. Tactics had tanks if I recall correctly, though I don't really consider it lore friendly given you could get your hands on an M1 Abrams tank. (Edit: actually scratch that last part. I think that was a mod... either way, there were driveable tanks in Tactics)

Wouldn't be very realistic, though. Just hop in a tank and drive it by yourself... I always laugh in video games when a tank that needs a crew of five+ people to drive and fire is operated by a single person lmao.

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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:44 pm

I don't see cars making a return, in fallout 2 it was practical because of the game engine. The New fallout world wouldn't really allow for it, hell they had enough trouble just getting vertibirds to work correctly in 4 they need to improve what they have before adding new content to it lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:04 pm

@Wertologist The only way I see it would have the terrain designed to fit vehicles. I would think that it would be a sort of mechanic of traveling a vast distance, stopping at an interesting location, getting out and exploring or doing what the quest required. In regards to performance, I think that NPC vehicles would be limited to quests, and certain areas with certain factions. I was not really thinking of GTA level of activity, given the fact that cars and other working vehicles would be hard to come by for the average wastelander. It would be more for large warbands, armies, and organized groups with the means to acquire motorized means. I like what you said about horses or motorcycles. Maybe have a sort of progression in the game.

@Chinpoko117 maybe stick with vehicles that are from the Fallout universe. Like you said, an Abrams would be a little ridiculous in a Fallout game. Maybe a requirement for tanks would be a hire able crew that took time to train, or a certain companion could operate the turret, or joining a certain faction would give you access to armored units.

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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:35 pm

@stoobygacks But in the way you proposed, walking would be pointless and tedious. If the distance you need to travel is built for a car, it's going to be painfully boring on foot. If you're going to use it as a fast travel system, then it's not really a worthwhile vehicle in the sense of adding vehicles. It'd be on the same level of vehicles in 3, NV, and 4 which would not be new at all. It's very difficult to build a map fit for both and I don't think Fallout has the ability.

If vehicles were limited to only quests, then there would be a severe lack of vehicles out there and that wouldn't feel very immersive or fun. That was one drawback I saw in XRE for NV. I was the only one with a car.
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:05 pm

Vehicles and fallout are two words that I don't think mix very well, simply because only a few factions should have access to vehicles. Vehicles in a world like fallout would be something very prestigious if the common rabble could get there hands on vehicles it would seem out of place to me. Fallout 2 is maybe the one exception to this rule as it made sense in the game, however, since the Vetibirds in Fallout 4 seem so clunky and troublesome. They should probably fix up those first before deciding to add cars or any other vehicle to the current engine. As it stands currently I do not want to see vehicles in any Fallout game simply because the game mechanics as they are seem broken for vehicles, not to mention again in a world like Fallout vehicles should not be commonplace only reserved for those who have earned them by joining the factions that have the tools needed to repair vehicles.
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:54 pm

@Wertologist say the mechanics are altered to fit the terrain. For example, early on in the game, the player must walk, or there are only parts of the map that can be accessible via on foot. Or maybe vehicles can be only used on parts of the map that are for example: toxic or irradiated and provide some kind of protection that a rad suit could not. I agree with you that I enjoy strolling across the wastes. I was aiming to make vehicles a complementary mode of transport. I don't necessarily want to do away with fast travel or foot travel. It would ave to be balanced between the three, or player choice. And done in a way that the walking is not painfully boring. Vehicles might not be limited only to certain quests, but some regions of the maps and "behave" as "NPCs." Much like some parts of Borderlands 1 or 2.

@George98 So I want to try to clear some things up. Yes vehicles would be associated with larger more powerful groups. The average wastelander could not get his hands on a tank or a car from some dealer, it would be a mechanic presented later on in the game. Maybe within story progression or one of the large factions would have them. Also this would be set in a game were vehicles were intended, and tested. So no awful vertibirds clipping through towers. These would be seamless integrations into the mechanics of the game.

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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:38 am

I do not feel that fallout on the current engine would support vehicles. After playing games like Dead Island, Mad Max, , Far Cries, and Ghost Recon. Vehicles in fallout would be slow and cumbersome since the engine needs to render it fast when driving and fallout don`t really render at that kind of rate. I think that is why the vertibirds are slow slow when you ride them.

I`ve seen vehicle mods for the game but never tried them. It just looked you plodding along in a car or bike at 2mph and I can nearly run as fast so why bother.
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:53 am

@stoobygacks Then you're going to essentially get Borderlands. Having areas strictly for foot and then another strictly for vehicle will impose limitations. It would need to be viable to go through the car areas on foot, but Fallout just wouldn't really work that way. I'd like to see vehicles in as it would be a lot of fun customizing them and driving them, but there are just too many problems with adding them. The only way they could really be implemented is how they have been implemented in 3, NV, and 4. You couldn't control them and they were on a set path. Things like buses could be added in as long as the AI drove them and stayed on the roads. The maps just aren't fitting for off-roading.

>I don't necessarily want to do away with fast travel or foot travel. It would ave to be balanced between the three, or player choice. And done in a way that the walking is not painfully boring.

But that's the thing. There really isn't a good way to implement them in without rendering one useless. Fallout(as of now) is all about travelling around on foot to explore every little nook and cranny for things you want/need. Any form of vehicle would be rendered useless/redundant because of how everything tends to be clumped together. You'd be stopping constantly and having to go pretty slow in order to maneuver around the obstacles. If you increase the distance between lootable areas to give vehicles more room, then you're pretty much forcing players to get vehicles because nobody wants to run across a big empty space just to get to the next loot area just to do it again for the next. That would also not really make sense lore-wise as pretty much everything is ruins from pre-world and it would make no sense that there is a random house in the middle of nowhere, not connected to anything.

I'd like to see it, but it's just not really feasible as you can't really have both. If you can draw up a sample map that would be feasible I'd like to see it, but I just can't see how it'd work.
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:05 pm

Honestly, I think the addition of driveable vehicles would really just turn it into a game like Mercenaries. No complaints, but I like having to hoof it without feeling OP.

That being said, the driveable semis of the commonwealth is an amazing mod, and I have had a lot of fun with it. However, I love that is a mod, because then it can be simply turned off.

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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:21 pm

Even though vehicles would be cool, I really wouldn't want them in a Fallout game. Unless it's just a way to fast travel, like that one mod that adds that van to make fast travel a bit more realistic. But, I wouldn't want to ride around in real time in the wastes. Just wouldn't feel right, ya' know? However, if the area was small, maybe it'd be okay. Now, I know that sounds really weird but here me out. If the area was small but you had to walk through the same areas all the time and there weren't many fast travel points or locations near to the area, vehicles would be fine. It would save the repetitive walk through the same area. Yeah, bit of a mixed opinion on vehicles for me...

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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:44 am

car
motorcycle
buggy
tank
jet
helicopter
boat
all have been done...all have their place. While I find it odd that no one has figured out how to make all of the cars move for 200 years...I wouldn't want the commonwealth flooded with common vehicles (boston had a traffic problem all the way up to October of 2077)

Now if we could have a version of power armor that could "transform and roll out" that would be awesome...that would make traversing the open world nice...especially if there were "offensive capabilities" like a turret mounted on the back where the jetpack would go ala war machine...but bigger. Move the jetpack to the boots again in iron man fashion...and transform into a tracked or wheeled  armor. 

I'm envisioning where you kinda just lay down so the shins have treads that act as armor in the armor mode...along with the forearms...simply drop to the knees and then bend at the waist and put your elbow/wrist to the ground and BOOM you're a fuckin' tank! it has to make the noise though...
Sound:
 

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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:42 am

The current Fallout 4 engine wouldn't be good at handling vehicle, that's for sure (we all know how well vertibirds behave within Fo4) but since that engine is more or less the same as Skyrim, let's just hope that the next Fallout game will make use of newer and better engine, and maybe one that could handle vehicle nicely. I think vehicles in Fallout is a cool idea, we know that there are vehicles in the Fallout universe, so having some sorts of vehicles in th next game wouldn't be a bad idea i think. Of course there's the problem of the map, it would need to be well designed and balanced to benefits both the use of vehicles and the traveling on foot, not easy to do, but not as impossible as some of you guys make it seem I believe. The last 3 Fallout games mainly took place in urban and suburban area (FnV is a bit different though), with concrete roads, filled with destroyed cars and other obstacles, so of course that makes the use of vehicles pretty much useless, or at least impractical. But if the next game had a large portion of the map with a more countryside set up, with more dirt roads than concrete roads and highways, then the use of vehicles would probably be more practical, with less obstacles. Or the map could have lots of rivers, and you could use boats and rafts.
So yea, vehicles in the next Fallout game would be a nice idea, and it could work, but we all know the large difference between what the Fallout fans community expect, and what they are given by Bethesda and co...

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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:32 pm

I see in Fallout Frontire is Tank
M4
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:15 am

@praising Thats an idea I did not think of: boats! if the next fallout game will be set in a watery place, watercraft would be an interesting idea. I would like to fight giant ghoul squid in a little rowboat, or a huge raider ship. It would be like the movie Waterworld. But I enjoy Fallout on dry land. So maybe not all the way flooded.

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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles in Fallout    Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:53 pm

@stoobygacks Well @OSOK mentioned the boat idea before me, hell, he mentioned every type of transports we could think of, even a sort of transformer armor. But yea, the boat idea could work well, when I wrote that I had in mind a map set around the Mississippi river delta, which I think would definitely be a great setting for a Fallout game.

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