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 Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]

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stoobygacks

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PostSubject: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:14 pm

I feel like this is the wrong place to include spoiler warnings for Fallout 4. But hey.

So I was doing some thinking about the strange, yet annoyingly simplistic story that is fallout 4. In the beginning, when Kellogg and the scientists get into the vault, was it ever necessary for Him to shoot husband/wife? I mean think about it. He is a well seasoned merc and clearly knows how to handle situations with and the necessary amount of force required. He could have just went up and held down the parent and took the child. No need to risk shooting the parent at near point blank with a .44, maybe rendering Shaun deaf.

The lack of thought that kicks off the game almost seems to poison the rest of the story. Why do something that is so avoidable. Was it added in for shock value? It feels more like a silly action film intro than anything else.

What does everyone think about this idea? Was it avoidable in any way? Was it necessary? Did it set the tone for the rest of the game? Lets discuss this.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:08 pm

@stoobygacks i think it was to set the tone of the game, i certainly know it shocked me because i avoided any spoilers before i played, however that'd be amazing a Wife/Husband companion, just as brutal as you, maybe a GTA 5 style character switch system

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:49 pm

I think it's quite subjective. I liked Fallout 3's intro the most because it had a great buildup but others may call it boring or tedious. The three intros are drastically different and to compare them would be foolish. While Fallout 3 has the long intro with your character's childhood and teen years, New Vegas has the "randomly dropped into a world" feeling and some may like that, and of course, some may like the Pre-war Fallout 4 intro. I quite like all the intros to each game, including FNV's intro for different reasons.

But as @Kaiser Atlas mentioned. It was to set the tone of the game, give the player motive to hunt Kellogg down and search for his son. There's a few reasons why it was there, so I guess it wasn't as "avoidable" as you say it is.

Also, Kellogg could care less about Nora and Shaun's wellbeing. He's a mercenary who looks for the easiest ways to complete each job and the Institute only value Shaun's genetics. They could care less if he was an eldritch abomination or a super mutant as long as they could create Gen 3 synths from pure DNA. I guess you could say the same about FNV's intro, no? Player is shot in the head, survives with no visible scar or retardation, doesn't even have amnesia. What was the point of that intro, was it avoidable?

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:24 pm

It would be easier to kill the parent instead of trying to fight them off when you try and take their kid. So you have the quest to find your son and get revenge on your wifes killer.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:08 am

I think it's okay they just needed shauns clean DNA who cares about making his hearing bad. I think it was necessary for the game for the SO to die.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:38 am

Yeah I totally agree @stoobygacks, but I think it was also to make Kellogg as an obvious villain, the guy who shot your spouse and then ran off with your kid. Kellogg also works as a device to introduce the player to the institute, the other major factions and the whole synth shindig in the Commonwealth. But yeah I didn't really jive with the whole shooting your spouse thing he could've just knocked him/her with a whack of his gun.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:42 pm

Obviously future Shaun instructed Kellogg directly to shoot his parent...he obviously had mommy/daddy issues...perhaps he remembers his playtime being interrupted when the evacuation occurred and needed to even the score because "daddy/mommy can't always protect you"

Shaun is such a douche

I mean...why not just abduct the entire family bring them into the institute and avoid the entire story quest all together? They could have been such a happy family, but instead this crazy motherfucker decided to piss his parent off royally and make them a widow...

Shaun is such a douche...and I know I've said that twice...but I mean...how is he not?

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:10 am

I think so yea. All the institute had to do was craft a knock out drug or hell just some ether and a rag knock out both parents upon opening the pods. Teleport them both out of there with Shaun. Give them jobs within the Institute. Give the Dad or Mom a job in security. Bam no conflict and pretty much f**k any of the drama going up on the surface. What would have worked better is the Sole Survivor doesn't know what happened to his/her wife/husband and kid upon opening the pod. Then he/she has to do some detective work and finds out the fate of them. They couldn't take him/her because their pod door malfunctioned and the system was going on the fritz and it was looking dicey at best they would survive much longer, but lo and behold they did and escaped.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:42 am

Yeah. The entire story line was created flawed from the start because of that in my opinion. I'm not as harsh as some people on fallout 4, but I feel like there was potential for a much better storyline.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:45 am

Yes, I genuinely believe that Fallout 4's story WAS avoidable and I believe if they were given enough time, they would've not made a repeat and a switcheroo from Fallout 3 to Fallout 4 where your the parent and ya gotta find your kid, ya know? It was not only unoriginal, it was downright criminal, ya know? Not to mention, the game story doesn't allow for much choice and RPG options, and I believe that Bethesda could've avoided this.

I guess the whole parent and kid thing sells, ya know?

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:05 pm

Lets just address the elephant in the room, FO4 story was crap in comparison

It had shock value, great! But so did FNV when WE got shot in the head!
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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:56 pm

@BrittleAngel They could have still made Kellogg a villain without having to kill your wife/husband. Even taking Shaun is reason enough for hating him. I am with you. Just knocking them with the butt of his pistol would be good enough.

@OSOK "Shaun is a douche" that made my day

@Kaiser Atlas It was a little surprising to see when your character first wakes up, but Fallout players are cut from a certain cloth, I feel we don't really need to be awed with brutality so early on.

@adeith thats not really the main argument I am trying to make. My main point is that why kill them. Sure Kellogg is a act tough jerkoff merc, but he is clearly an intelligent man. He could have accidentally shot Shaun or even his scientist helpers. It really comes down to the fact that (as mentioned by others) the brutality of the intro was not really needed. It was only there for a cheap action flick revenge plot. I don't think that the SO needed to die. It was a gimmick way to set up an almost cartoonish villain. that plot could still revolve around the baby being taken.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:35 pm

Kellogg is the typical vilain, with a scar and, a big gun and a harsh past. So he was forced to do vilain's things, even if it's not smart. The thing that could be avoidable is the war between almost every faction. I was quite surprised when the BoS attacked the Rail Road. Did they even know them before ? They are always hidden, almost unknown, but the big shiny knights still found them.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:04 pm

@stoobygacks knowing kellogg's history it's not surprising it happened. not to mention you needed someone to hate other than the institute right at the start of the game. people already think others are crazy for thinking the institute are kidnapping people and replacing them and if we're just honest bethesda just lazy I wouldn't mind seeing a mod making the SO survive and be a follower.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:36 am

@adeith There already is a mod where you can have your spouse as a follower with completely original dialogue from the game itself, the modder pieced together lines of dialogue from both gender characters and put em together as a companion mod, it's pretty cool. He's even got a version of the mod for your lesbian/gay characters, as my female character in Fallout is more often than not, a bit of a lesbian so yeah.

This story is complete sh*t, I won't lie, Bethesda's laziness and un-originality resulted in this mess.


Luckily, while the story is sh*t, there's a whole game, and mods can make the game enjoyable at least. Let's hope the next Fallout game has an original story, like FNV. Let Obsidian take control of the next Fallout.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:04 am

Story was trash, completely unnecessary to do that as well as kill all the other vault inhabitants when the institute needed pure humans. Completely unnecessary to force us to team with preston garvey, the brotherhood has become a bunch of pansies, somehow one easy mission with paladin danse who try's to recruit you immediately, then you have the railroad who you can find their top secret HQ too easy and they immediately want you to lead them.. the story is worthless, literally when i first started i cared absolutely nothing about the fact that they murdered my wife and stole my child because it gives you 2 minutes of backstory to try and form a non existing connection due to lack of depth.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:27 pm

@Enclave216 I don't agree that it was 100% trash. I would rate it at like 60% trash. If you are referring to the main questline, then maybe 80% trash lol. Seriously though, It was a hard to care about Nora being killed because you hardly get to know her. I think if the intro sequence was more like Fallout 3 (as in it was over a span of time) it might be better. Like maybe a little sequence of Nate fighting in the war or maybe a sequence of him coming home from the war. Or what about when they buy the house, or Nora's graduation from law school. Little additions like that would make us care about the other characters.

When it comes to being forced to join the brotherhood and Preston Gravyboat's motley gang of losers, it bothers me that we are forced the be the "good guys." Like it would be far more Fallout-esq if we could side with the raiders who were attacking, or even side with the gunners and hunt down the Minutemen. I agree that it was strange that almost every faction you meet that is denoted as "good" welcomes the player with open arms.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:07 pm

Yeah I was referring to the Main quest line, which in general doesn't make any sense. Why are you tracking your son across the commonwealth when your son was the one who woke you up in the first place. Especially being able to just teleport right to you, what was the point of it? Then to go and track down a ruthless mercenary that killed your wife who's apparently employed by your son? What was his point? the institute had Coursers which even Kaelogg feared, so why the heck did they need him lol?

Fallout 4 doesn't have replay value because you're forced to do a whole mess of crap you don't want too and you don't really have any incentive to do any of it nor do you form any kind of attachment to any of the factions. Facing realistic facts, the brotherhood is played out as being the good guys (which they aren't) The railroad no one cares about, The minutemen is forced upon you like an STD. The only real viable faction is the institute. They're the only remotely interesting faction because they've not been encountered before.
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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:29 pm

Father released you to see how well you'd fair up in the Commonwealth. You have to remember this situation has never been done before. Sure there are Vault Dwellers from the past who have been exposed to the horrors of the Wasteland but a Pre-War Vault Dweller? Nothing of the like. In short, to observe the pre-war resident and what they would do. If you check the Institute there are many cameras and they even place synth birds in the areas in which the Sole Survivor visits, such as Concord and Vault 111 to observe the SS. The Institute are known as the boogeyman of the Commonwealth for a reason. They're a myth and tend to keep to secrecy most of the time. Revealing themselves to some Pre-War Vault Dweller and expecting them not to try to run away and alert other factions to their presence is foolish. Hell even after the SS finds them the SS still has the option to destroy the Institute. The Institute want to secure their future, because they believe they are securing Humanity's future. Without the Institute, civilization will likely perish, or at least, be under strict martial law and atrocities committed by the BoS or Enclave (of course, if they were still present after FO3).

Most of the factions aren't TRULY good in Fallout 4 neither are they TRULY bad. The BoS are not the "good guys", as they hunt and kill synths, raid settlements and expect those settlements to provide support for the BoS while claiming about how great they are and how terrible everybody else is. The Institute are crazy scientists that believe they're helping Humanity when in reality they are weakening it and possibly end it, and the Railroad help synths that possibly could render humans extinct as a species. The only true good faction is the Minutemen that I will admit aren't written well at all. I personally believe they were just added in as a Yes Man faction that the player can fall back on if they can't complete the game with the other factions, hence why their ending only becomes available if you are banished from the Institute.

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PostSubject: Re: Was Fallout 4's Story Avoidable [SPOILER]   Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:33 pm

But the question of survival of the SS should have been a moot point since even if he has the intelligence of a rock they'll still take orders from him. He was a prewar soldier so if he can survive the war against the red menace then they should have known this, while I get they're reclusive it really was pointless if the plan all along was going to have you live there because your son runs the joint and why he employs the same murderer that killed his mom is still ridiculous considering they have coursers.

As for the brotherhood, there was one minor quest of them taking from a settlement the only reasonable thing they did actually. The fact that they show up in an airship broadcasting a message as friendly do gooders says otherwise in my opinion (with their lore breaking power armor). Anyone can kill synths, in fact it seems most people do anyway from the content, the railroad and minutemen were completely forgettable, in fact I remember slaughtering the railroad the moment i laid eyes on them. Sadly I was unable to finish off the minutemen with preston and his crap.

I agree that they were added in as a fall back faction, however I wouldn't quite compare them with Yes Man's faction considering he was completely independent and they aren't. With Yes Man you could keep alive whoever you wanted, with the minutemen others still have to die for them to prevail.
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