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 Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?

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Spifferino

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PostSubject: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:56 am

I'm not a fan of creation club in the slightest. I think it's decent system run amok and should be used for huge DLC sized mods. I've purchased quite a bit of content to distribute to friends, and I was wondering if I'd face repercussion for posting that content here. Thought I'd ask before doing.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:40 am

I would like to know this as well, cause I recently ported all the military backpacks from there.  closed eyes smile
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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:06 am

It seems to be very trendy to say "this paid mods thing hasn't been implemented properly" and then at the same time offer no alternative solution that seems realistic from a companies' perspective. Bethesda wouldn't create a hosting platform for mods if they weren't going to make any money out of it. It's as simple as that. I'm not saying I support their methods, but it is what it is. It also comes across as extremely disingenuous when these same people that say 'it hasn't been implemented properly' wouldn't pay a dime or donate anything to a mod author anyway, even if it was implemented in the way they want it. It's just an excuse to get everything for free. We already have a donation feature on the Nexus so really, an 'ideal' setup is already there, but out of the millions of folks using the mods, I'd hazard a guess that less than 1% of them have ever donated to a mod author -- trust me, those donation lists that mod authors post are small. Furthermore, most of the mods available on the Creation Club currently aren't exactly 'special' in the grand scheme of things. There are plenty of alternatives already in existence. The only one I liked the look of was that Homemade Shotgun, which I may even buy credits for. I'm pretty sure it's easy to 'rip' the mods if they're implemented in a similar way to Steam Workshop. It'll likely still create esps and texture/mesh assets, likely in the form of a BSA. So, it's just a case of installing one, checking the Fallout 4 data folder and viewing by 'date modified' to see if you can spot the new files. Still, that means that someone has to buy them due to the way the CC is integrated in-game.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:10 am

@TheHermit My issue isn't the platform, it's the content and the way their going about it. If they're marketing it as DLC, then make it DLC, not armors, weapons etc. It makes no sense, and the content is way overpriced. I'll gladly donate to any author that I WANT to donate to.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:22 am

According to Gopher, the weapons and armor have quests attached to them. And technically, it is DLC by industry definition. DLC for Witcher 3, for example, was the Beard and Hairstyle Set, Nilfgaardian Armor Set, Alternative Look For Ciri, et cetera. What Creation Club offers is, for all intents and purposes, Downloadable Content. It's just, to the consumer, those definitions have expanded over time and have become synonymous with Expansion Packs and catch words like: "Large Scale", "Hours More Gameplay". Sometimes, however, DLC can just mean Horse Armor Wink

Regarding the ripping of the Creation Club mods, watch this new video by Gopher. It kind of confirms my thoughts in my previous post.


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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:28 am

@TheHermit Not to argue here, and while you may be right, how well did horse armor go down? It's an insult. To me, and many others.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:29 am

@Spifferino I agree with the fact that it should be DLC-esque mods. I would be fine with smaller things like some VERY high quality armor or weapon pack, or even new animations, If it was more like "This weapon pack is $0.50, pay this amount for it." Instead of "Here is this one weapon pack you want, it is .50. Pay us $5 for the credits you'll use maybe 25% on." I know the math isn't accurate but you get my point. I've never liked the 5.00 or whatever minimum to add funds to something. I always hated back when I was a PS user I had to put a minimum of $5 on my account for something that was maybe $2.50 and then I had this money in my wallet that I couldn't use because now Sony had it and there is nothing else I want for the amount that I had. So neither Sony nor me could benefit from it because it would just sit in limbo.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:37 am

@Spifferino, I'm not saying that what Bethesda is doing is right. I'm just telling you the hows and the whys and the fact that the stuff on the Creation Club can rightly be called DLC by definition: "Downloadable content can be of several types, ranging from aesthetic outfit changes to a new, extensive storyline, similar to an expansion pack." I'm not concerned with the moral and ethical question of it. It's a huge company and companies do what companies do whether we like it or not. Just trying to inject a bit of reality into the situation.

*Edit* if you watch that video by Gopher, they've shot themselves in the foot. If you check your Fallout 4 data folder you'll see that the CC mod assets are installed minus their respective plugins. The Creation Club won't last long because whoever designed it this way, a way that changes the *.exe every time something new is added (thus making the use of F4SE problematic), that person is the antithesis of genius.

All you need now, @aarius is this: B.A.E. - Bethesda Archive Extractor

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Spifferino

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:55 am

@SentinelHunter Completely agree, would be fine paying even a buck or two for a good quality pack of weapons, armors, or gameplay changes, but 5 bucks for a single armor is insane.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:04 am

@TheHermit

IIRC Gopher also said in a previous video of his that these small quests are just to go kill some enemies with quest markers on the compass and pick up the set of armor or weapons, to which he showed a lot of disgust for.

And forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't all those Witcher 3 DLC packs you listed free on Steam? Bethesda are selling these microtransactions at a price while CD Projekt Red is letting people download them for free, they're completely different.

All in all, this Creation Club would've actually been a benefit to the community if they had included Falskaar level mods that are on par, if not better than official DLC Bethesda has released. It could've been unofficial DLC sized mods that the community would have no problem with purchasing and probably would if the mod was behind a paywall. Skyrim and Fallout 4 would have benefited from this being that Skyrim only has three DLC packs with only two worth purchasing and Fallout 4 only one good DLC and this could satisfy the community's lust for more content, especially the console players.

Unfortunately this isn't the case and Bethesda have instead chosen the easy route to pickpocket their consumers for every last dime. Who would pay for a pipboy skin in a singleplayer game where NOBODY will see it besides the player? Especially when there are alternatives for free that look and play exactly the same. It's nothing more than a lazy excuse for Bethesda to gain money doing nothing.

Trust me, if this is allowed to continue we could see creators selling bug fixes seeing as Bethesda lack any logic to fix their own game and instead value rolling their game out on dates that look cool instead of dates when the actual game is finished.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:32 am

Corvo wrote:
And forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't all those Witcher 3 DLC packs you listed free on Steam? Bethesda are selling these microtransactions at a price while CD Projekt Red is letting people download them for free, they're completely different.
I believe they were free, yes. However, and again, by definition (I still think people are misunderstanding my angle on this), they're still DLC, just Bethesda are adding microtransactions to theirs.
Corvo wrote:
this Creation Club would've actually been a benefit to the community if they had included Falskaar level mods that are on par,
It's early days yet. They may still have something of that size up their sleeve -- a lot of top profile modders were contacted or themselves requested Creation Club status. You may not have a problem purchasing something that size, but a lot of people will. Can't please everybody.
Corvo wrote:
Who would pay for a pipboy skin in a singleplayer game where NOBODY will see it besides the player?
Probably not PC players, but a lot of console player will. Just because we have the better sense not to, doesn't mean others won't be willing to pay for this content. Bethesda wouldn't have tried this if they wasn't market data to support it. It would be a waste of money.

Fallout 4 doesn't seem as popular to mod as Skyrim and older Fallout titles, so I'm not too worried. I still haven't completed Fallout 4. Whilst the graphics are an improvement and certain gameplay elements, it's been gutted out of a lot of the good stuff and simply not as enjoyable as previous titles.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:51 am

Well to be honest on the old site I've seen dlc ripped from 1 game to another along with a ton of other rips. As others have said the files are there on the hard drive. I even got the prey & stealth suit in game. Sadly they have their own mesh issues. I am not sure about the hellfire or horse armor tho. As I can't put power armor in game sadly. Much more complicated than regular armor.
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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:59 am

@"Xehonort" How'd you do that? I've got the two .ba2 files for the Prey suit and a matching ESP but the items aren't loading in-game.
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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:09 am

Pulled the files from the ba2s and put them in their folders minus the strings & scripts.
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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:23 am

As for posting anything ripped here, I believe it's against GUN rules.
Posting other people's content without permission is not allowed.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:17 am

We have no issues with ported content and it's not against the sites rules. The ported content from the CC is a different thing. The content on CC are mods made by other people, so if we're to post their mods here we need there permission. Doing so without permission is against the rules.

Porting these mods is a form of piracy which we do not support on this site. So if you want to share it here on GUN, you will need to have the author's permission to distribute it outside the CC.

The rules regarding mod distribution is as followed:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:12 pm

William Lionheart wrote:
We have no issues with ported content and it's not against the sites rules. The ported content from the CC is a different thing. The content on CC are mods made by other people, so if we're to post their mods here we need there permission. Doing so without permission is against the rules.

Porting these mods is a form of piracy which we do not support on this site. So if you want to share it here on GUN, you will need to have the author's permission to distribute it outside the CC.

The rules regarding mod distribution is as followed:
 
Porting models from licensed games is also a piracy, which means that 99% of mods on GUN is a pirated content. You can't pick things which seem to be "more comfortable" for the site owners. People who didn't give the modders their permission to port models to NV/FO4 worked hard on the models they have created, same way as CC modders worked hard on their mods. So if the GUN site owners do not practice in hypocrisy, they either should ban all ported (pirated) models here OR allow every pirated content.
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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:52 pm

I think you'll find a lot of modders are given permission to use the assets. For the rest, it's a very grey area and not as clear cut as you'd like to make out.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club - Guidelines on ripping and posting ?   Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:38 pm

@Pharah We do not "pick things which seems to be more comfortable for us", I think you misunderstood Will's post. Post which may have been better worded (partly my fault as Will let me doublecheck his post before sending it), so let me try to rephrase it.

We do not forbid people to port mods from the CC, if any of our member want to port stuff from the CC, well they can and that's fine with us. We simply forbid people to share ported mods/content from the CC here without the original author's permission. It's the same rule about distributing mods here that we've always had. And it has nothing to do with us supporting the CC or not (I'm pretty sure all of the staff thinks the CC is a stupid idea). Even though CC mods are paid mods, they are still mods, and if someone wants to share a mod that uses assets from a CC mods, or even share a ported mod from the CC, then that person needs to have the original author's permission in order to share it here.

Also, as @TheHermit has pointed out, ported content from licensed games is a blur line, and it's far from being as black and white as you make it look like. I mean, feel free to check EULAS of gaming companies and you'll see that a lot of companies do not consider ported content as piracy, as long as people don't make money out of it.

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