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 Is JuiceHead bad for the community?

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Corvo

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PostSubject: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:57 am

Alright, it's no secret we have ported content on here. However, Juicehead publicises these mods as they're available to everybody, and face it, not everybody in DoucheHead's subscriber base is going to take kindly to the system we have. A lot of the mods he publicises are public, yes, but once he lets his fanbase know of our presence, it's only a matter of time until they know of the mods GUN has privated. Then guess what? They're going to leak them.

I know it seems like I'm painting these people with the same brush, but let's be honest. A lot of the Fallout community take it's modders for granted and they're not exactly going to let a promotion wall block their way of free content. We have enough problems with mod leakers and thieves already. If you take a peek at the comments section, you'll also see many people begging others to steal the mods and import them on Beth.net. DoucheHead is doing more harm than good once again as he is promoting this.

What also bothers me is he is making money off of publicising this. MxR, Gopher or Oxhorn publicise mods whose creators want it to be public (hence why they put it on the Nexus). Douchehead does this too, but now he's making revenue off of exposing private ported content. He doesn't care if his subscriber base invade GUN and carry out a mod leak apocalypse, he just cares about the money he makes off of it.

Also, I haven't seen him around in the community, so he's probably just made an account to install the mods and not bothered with the whole community side of things, which is what we strive to promote. He views this site less of a forum and more like a mod hub like the Nexus, and if he does it, his subscribers are doing it too.

The titles of his videos always have "Illegal" in them to garner clicks, which not only paints a false picture of the site, but ruins the mod author's reputation and discourages them from creating any more.

I'm not going to link Douchehead's videos here as I don't want to promote his Youtube Channel.

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:35 am

It's too late, all the private mods were posted on reddit by a scorned user.
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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:54 pm

It's a rather moot point considering that a decent amount of mods in the private section have been leaked on reddit already as well as the fact there is nothing preventing people from leaking these mods. Once something is on the internet it's imprint will remain somewhere albeit on some other hosting platform.

Secondly in terms of the community participation a lot of these mods are from the public section. It's called a public section for a reason. All that is required to gain access is an account; just like the nexus. If someone really wants those private mods they must either participate or be savvy enough to solicit reddit and users willing to link private access mods.

The private mods make up a small percentage of the mod links on this forum and are for a game that is slowly losing attention with regards to modding. FO4 is where a lot of the modding is focused and there are very few private access FO4 mods.

As much as I dislike his videos, Juicehead isn't the only youtuber to publicise the fact that there are mods on this forum let alone the fact that there is a private access section. His use of attention grabbing clickbait is common among other youtubers. If you don't like it, don't view his videos and further increase his revenue. He isn't doing anything illegal with regards to showcasing content.

This isn't a new polarizing issue.... Mods will be leaked regardless and modders will keep on modding.

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:26 pm

I agree with Corvo, i think that's unacceptable that the mods are leaked and are showed in YouTube.
So my opinion this Douchebag is real threat for our community.
About his fanbase, they will be really upset of fact that the mods are private. And i don't think that his fanbase would be really trying to achieve Colonial status for access to private forums and leaking all mods they can leak. There need a strong hand to protect our community and privacy of mods.
I don't like videos of Douchebag, so i can say this is need to be stopped. But i don't know how this can be stopped.
There will be always such douchebags like this guy (you know who it is), and they will be always try to invade and leak mods.

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Cerruti

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:56 pm

I agree with you, but it's impossible to avoid leaks.
I've even experienced this site through Asian sites that have published Gunetwork mods.
In the end, Juicehead is only advertising the mods and there is nothing reprehensible, they are the ones who loot the mods and re publish them on their site which ultimately hurts me the most.

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:01 pm

My opinion? Yes, I do think he is bad for our community.

I wouldn't care if it was done similar to how AlChestBreach has done before, where from time to time there is one maybe two in one of his reviews. But to go out and make a series (which has been weekly it seems) called "Illegal Mods" isn't cool. It makes it sound like we are running some kind of black market for mods or that we are all a bunch of thieving crooks...

Also about the mod theft, theft is theft. Some cases it is easier to get it taken down but in others it is either extremely difficult or not a possibility. Sucks major ass regardless though.

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:22 pm

So in my opinion, I wouldn't care if it was one of us showcasing them. Or if it was like Fury said, how Al does it. But calling them Illegal Mods is not cool. It makes this community look bad, and can possibly attract more thieves once they find out how it works. Now I hope no one here tries to attack, or go after him, because that could also make us look bad. But if he was a big enough problem, maybe request he make them not sound so malicious or that he stops altogether. We do need to make sure that people understand that we are friendly, and not some evil, greedy community. But we also have to protect ourselves, and each other.

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:03 pm

I really didn't mind Juice's videos when he covered certain mods I may have missed, but when I saw the name 'Illegal', I had a bad feeling about it. I was very curious how this community would respond, but I think he should maybe downplay the 'illegal' aspect, like how the comments above have said.

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:07 pm

My biggest concern with what he's doing is drawing way too much attention to the site. Many people are already aware of GUN, however, what JH is doing is sticking a big fucking sign with a bunch of blinking lights saying "HERE LAWYERS DMCA THIS SITE THEY'RE DOING ILLEGAL SHIT!"

Mods are going to get leaked, many of the mod users on Nexus are entitled pricks and care nothing for the mod creators or the hard work that went into the mod, as long as they get what they want.

I'm not as concerned about the leaks ( don't get me wrong leaks are still bad shit ) as I am about how he is greatly publicizing the sited and that can draw attention from Big studios, which will draw the attention of lawyers, and then the site will get nuked with DMCA's. I thought he had just done two videos and that was it, but now I see he just did another one. I decided to report his video, and maybe that's what we should do, report these videos in for various violations even if they're a stretch, but it's some way of harassing and trying to get the message across.

The biggest thing, he never consulted anybody on these forums before making and releasing those videos. Had he come to DVAted or some of the Overseers and said, "Hey I'd like to make some videos showing some of the cool stuff that you guys port, what should I title the videos?" I think it might have been more acceptable and far more respectful.

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:48 pm

While I am a sub of Juicehead for a while now and a longer member of this here communitah. I got to say I don't like his advertising of the site either. Don't get me wrong, mod authors do it for the love of doing it but if they wanted to announce the mods they make they are all capable of doing it. I've already seen kids on the web gettin all bent outta shape about mods on here because they cant get to them or they dont want to be a part of the community.

I'm not bashing Juice for his vids other than his "Illegal" mods vids. A better name for it would of been more considerate if he wanted to advertise or he could atleast contact the folks here and see if it was ok.
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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:08 am

Just like it attracted the RHS team from ArmA to put up a hissy fit, those videos are soon to attract corporate lawyers. The whole "Illegal" crap certainly does not help.

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:09 am

@"Evmeister" I so agree that Juicehead could have approached this in such a smoother way instead of driving a dump truck through a nitroglycerin plant( I've always liked this saying lol). But I also agree that many of the Nexus users are, how do I put this gently, very shallow? Don't get me wrong, I love the site and there are COUNTLESS mods along with a cool image section. My problem is that since it is so massive, it's hard for a community to grow with a good amount of active and supportive users. Many of his subs will come over and try to use these mods and guess what? I don't mind, not at all. Most of these are public, and I love for more people to join. I really only hope that these people will actually be active and friendly on this site.

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:27 am

I myself discovered this site through seeing one of his videos myself. You guys have a cool thing going on and I respect that. I`m also a mod author of making mods for over 10 years back since Morrowind was the rage. So I know about mods being taken and posted elsewhere. I can google my author name and find nearly everything I have made since then on sites I never even heard of before. I also normally write in my readmes not to upload without permission but they do it anyway.

Certain people will leak content no matter what. I think you guys have a good system in place with proving yourself and becoming a member of the community. It makes sense and I can understand the discretion. There will always be bad apples though. In most circumstances, I think you might be surprised that the videos actually pull in likeminded people as well. Gotta take the good with the bad I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:34 am

SentinelHunter wrote:
So in my opinion, I wouldn't care if it was one of us showcasing them. Or if it was like Fury said, how Al does it. But calling them Illegal Mods is not cool. It makes this community look bad, and can possibly attract more thieves once they find out how it works. Now I hope no one here tries to attack, or go after him, because that could also make us look bad. But if he was a big enough problem, maybe request he make them not sound so malicious or that he stops altogether. We do need to make sure that people understand that we are friendly, and not some evil, greedy community. But we also have to protect ourselves, and each other.

It could also attract bethesda to look at us or other major game makers. maybe we should talk to him and get him to stop the clickbait shit.

SpaceC wrote:
Just like it attracted the RHS team from ArmA to put up a hissy fit, those videos are soon to attract corporate lawyers. The whole "Illegal" crap certainly does not help.

RHS team? wait what are you are talking about? was that here? did that happen actually here on GUN?




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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:20 am

@"Evmeister" You hit the nail on the head with the Nexus. They are also never satisfied and some get rude. That's why I moved over to here. Juicehead is bad for this community. I almost wonder if he has a vendetta or something. The worst part is the console players that will get butt hurt that we can't release mods to them. Some authors are already pulling mods. As of now I won't pull mine. I love the G.U.N and I'm not even a vip. But I am starting to get concerned.

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:57 am

@rkelly Apparently, yes. AussieShepherd117 had made an armor mod which used armors from RHS. Two weeks ago when JH made an "illegal" mods video showing AussieShepherd117's mod it got taken down a couple days later.

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:05 am

@Evmeister i think that this prick must apologize for using mods without permission. If he apologize, that would be good, or if he COULD ask for permission Overseers (like you said).

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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:24 am

@Corvo

We're gonna build a wall!

And Juicehead's gonna pay for it!!

In all seriousness tho, I understand the criticism, even if it is a bit "Dey turk ur muurds!!" I wouldn't mind if juicyboy explained the site properly to his subs, and was active in the community, but the way he's exploiting this site for clickbait titles and content is a bit disrespectful and ignorant. The attention he is drawing to the site is not a good thing because it's the bad type of attention. Youtubers like Al, DarkPopulous and NCRVet have covered mods on here brie and it wasn't a proble, because they properly explained what the site was and how it worked. This brought new, enthusiastic-er people to the site that wanted to see what it had to show and engage with the community. They also weren't that big so it wasn't much of a problem. Juicyboy is a different story, and he is encouraging the worst kind of modder to come here and demand mods without them knowing how the site works. To top it all off, he's big enough to attract major attention from game devs and lawyers, which could be the end of the site. Juicyboy, if you're reading this hidden behind your alt account, please, please don't destroy this site for a cheap buck. I know you get lots of little clicks from 14 year old xbox users for putting the word "illegal" in the title of your videos, but you could end up destroying what we have here. Tone it down, and explain the site properly to your fans. Do this, and I think you'll have a lot less backlash from the community on here. Cheers.
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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:41 am

As someone who frequently watches Juicehead I can agree that he is bringing to much unwanted attention to this site. He is bringing in people who want no place in the community and are just here for the free mods. Like you said a simple scan of his "illegal" mods video comments and you can see people begging for mods or criticizing GUN for its protection of private mods.

Like others have also said JuiceHead is nowhere to be found on the site. There are probably accounts named after or similar to JuiceHead but would be near impossible to confirm which one was legit. Partially in his defense though he does "explain" what he means by illegal mod but his vocabulary regarding the whole situations is lacking at best and in the ends only paints GUN as some kind of black market mod hub when really it is not.

I feel though if we were to take a sort of stand and try to counter this JuiceHead character it would only bring more attention to the site and give those who all ready dislike GUN another reason to hate us more.
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PostSubject: Re: Is JuiceHead bad for the community?   Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:54 am

Ok. He reviews mods that are available to all modusers. I'm afraid, that there is nothing about him. He just do his job to get some money. Tell me please, if you'll find some source of money, will you reject it just to follow some ideas or principles of the community? I suppose, no.
And stealing isn't his problem, either. He doesn't steal anything himself. Some of his viewers may, but not JH. The only bad thing about this situation is that too much people learned about this community. And now the risks for modmakers are much higher.
On the other hand, there is a guy, NcrVet, who also made a lot of videos about mods from here. I learned about this community from him. I'm the part of it since 2014. 3 years already. And I could steal hundreds of mods if I would like. But I didn't and am not going to do this. Because it's not my goal here. Ok, I don't create anything myself. I only use the mods of other members. The only thing I can do is to say "thnks dude, your mod is awesome...etc".
What I mean, its not JH's problem. He just does his job. It's the problem of the community. And only it should decide how to prevent leaking. If the community will block somehow JH, it will have no guarantees that somebody else won't appear in future.
PS. There was a guy, I don't remember his name who made reviews and gave direct links to the mods. Not to VGU (it vas VGU by that time), but to mediafire. The problem was solved somehow. So, I think that blaming JH is not right. He causes some problems, but leaking isn't his fault, imho.
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