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 [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game

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quicksilver500

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:34 am

Corvo wrote:
Don't worry. You never offended anybody other than the half-baked Obsidian fanboys.

-1 rep for flaming
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:57 am

Whoa! When did this happen?

Oh sorry let me back up...There are other fallout games besides 4? WOW! I surely thought the 4 was just part of the title...as in "left 4 dead" or something...and the main quest was to find out what the fallout was 4?

No seriously, let me dive deep into my feelings


I FEEL that comparing FEELINGS against a method of measure is silly...People will feel however they wish and are entitled to do so...how they act while in those feelings is where the definition of their maturity and character are made.

The OP tagged and titled this thread as a rant...which to me usually is interpreted as "move-along" I mean sometimes some just need to vent into the interwebz...and as history has shown...when one vents to the interwebz...the interwebz obliges and of course allows for a response.

I have by far the least amount of authority to speak on the "pros" and/or "cons" of Fallout4 or any of them really.
Do I own every installment of the franchise? Oh yes...I needed that replica mini nuke...now ask me if the games have ever been opened? ...short answer...NO
Oh I have steam copies of 3 and NV...at the advice of those from this very forum.
Play NV they said...it's so amazing they said...Obsidian does awesome things with code...immersion IMMERSION!
Install and Play FO3 because the capital is amazing they said...great story and environment...better than boston they said.

My feeling is the above advice was "less than accurate"

My total play time in NV could be measured in "minutes" and not more than 10, and that includes character creation..I've stated it before, my play of NV lasted until I reached the front porch of the house the character wakes up in...I walk outside, and BAM! I'm dead. Don't know from what, and I don't remember much else...But, I know for certain I was looking for a reason to quit that game.

Point is, to each their own. Because in actuality it is impossible for a fan to debate the comparison of two games based entirely on unbiased facts...FAN is short for FANATIC and do we really need a reminder of what that word means?

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:09 pm

quicksilver500 wrote:
Corvo wrote:
Don't worry. You never offended anybody other than the half-baked Obsidian fanboys.

-1 rep for flaming
Who, exactly, did he insult? Lone?

Because there's exactly one direct mention of Obsidian throughout the thread, and I can't see how Corvo's comment was meant to incite the person who brought it up.

Personally, I do think a heavily modded NV is a far superior Fallout game to 4 and 3 (although 3 gets a bit of a proof-of-concept pass, for me). That said, Corvo sees it differently, and whether or not you agree with him he's free to give his reasons and engage in conversation about the topic at hand. It appears to me you're having a bit of trouble dealing with this fact, and I believe you've contrived a "reason" to express your discontent by deliberately choosing to conflate a bit of cheeky snark with flamebait. I came into this thread to comment on the topic but your behavior has made this impossible.

Civility is based on a mutually agreed-upon social contract, whether explicit or implicit. I would imply that abusing the rep system based on the flimsy pretext of someone using a term that is almost as common as AMD, Nvidia, XBox or PS4 on gaming sites - as opposed to simply downvoting his comment or, even better, coming up with a salient counterpoint - breaks the spirit of that compact, and is just bad form. People are sometimes going to disagree with you, and may hold opinions you flat out don't like. Deal with it. If you want an echo chamber of obligatory perpetual agreement the N3xU$ will always be there for you, but I would respectfully ask you refrain from corrupting this forum with melodramatic pearl-clutching. Thanks in advance for your consideration.

TL/DR - the term "fanboy" is NOT flamebait; don't use forum tools to attack people you disagree with

As to OPs point, I agree - Fallout 4 is tremendously flaky, and seems both more shallow and hollow than even 3 (which was their first crack at the series!) NV was certainly the best effort so far, but Corvo's criticisms are legitimate and actually apply to all three Beth-published entries. In fact, I'd almost consider paid mods if every bit of Bethesda's cut was earmarked for hiring some damn writers.
OSOK wrote:
Point is, to each their own. Because in actuality it is impossible for a fan to debate the comparison of two games based entirely on unbiased facts...FAN is short for FANATIC and do we really need a reminder of what that word means?
Careful, you're cruising for some negative reps with such appalling language, my dude...
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:19 pm

Woah there everyone! Lets not start drama over who's flaming who. I see @njmanga097 point. It does not feel like a fallout game. I don't want to get all metaphysical "far out man" but its the vibe of the thing. Maybe its the grindy radial quests give it that never ending ubisoft feel. To some level there is a lack of consequence for actions unlike past Fallout games. Visually it is also very different so I can see where you are coming from. Maybe it was the washed out, high gamma wasteland that killed it for some people, or the drastic change in art style. Gameplay wise, the game is fantastic, with better looking everything. Story wise and RPG, its not. I remember Gopher saying that Fallout 4 is a good game but not a good RPG.

@PROROOK363 Too bad that Bethesda had to take a step back in the story. It looked great, but that damn washed out look (vanilla lighting) was terrible. But all the creatures, weapons and power armor was great.

@Mattafex Yeah this is going to be good

Everyone else needs to take a breath. No one insulted anyone's mother or how their face looks. Its just a game. No need for anyone to loose rep over some opinions they got. Everyone here has some good criticisms of the game. Lets cool things off before we get into ad hominem territory.

tl;dr chill fam

To lighting the mood...:
 

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:04 pm

Why are so many people giving bad rep? Especially for @Corvo . It seems to me that he just gave his honest opinion, maybe he could've said things in a better/nicer way but it's not a big deal. Also, English is not my first language so I had to look on the internet what "flaming" is and maybe I'm wrong but I don't think that's flaming. He also didn't insult anyone specifically per se so I don't understand why the -rep.

@quicksilver500 also got negative rep without any reason, I mean, I don't agree with the negative rep he gave to @Corvo but I don't think people should give him -rep just because of that. Even if you think he abuse the rep system this isn't the way to handle it.

And the one I understand the least, why did OP recieved -rep? I'm 100% sure he didn't do anything wrong so it's absolutly absurd, plus, nobody even stated why they gave the negative rep in the first place. If you don't like his opinion the move on or at least give your own opinion.

You all need to chill TongueTril

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:41 pm

Imma just say this:

I prefer NV. NV is my favourite game, hands down. It's the only game I've ever made mods for, it's the only game I've enjoyed so much that I wanted to dig into its very core and find out how it ticked, and to make it tick differently. I love the way it does, well, pretty much everything. The humour, the branching storylines, the brilliantly thoughtfully crafted world, the characters, the weapons and armor, I just think the whole thing is brilliant. To top it all off I think that the Fallout universe is definitely one of the coolest game universes ever. While I admit that my getting into NV was slow, I didn't like it at first, (although I gave it more of a chance than @OSOK tbf TongueTril ). But by my second playthrough I was hooked. I couldn't and can't stop playing or modding it. It's just my favourite game, and of course I saw, and still do see, all the flaws.

The outdated graphics, the awful animations, the janky dialogue, the muddy textures, the buggyness, the occasional ctds, how goddanm old it was. I wanted, I needed something new. I wad crying out for a new Fallout game with all the charm, the brilliant world, and everything else.

Later that year, Bethesda announced Fallout 4. Needless to say, I wad hype like the rest of you. I spent 40 euro on it, which for me is a lot, I couldn't buy it full price.

I was bitterly, bitterly disappointed. As 'subjective' as it may be, idgaf, 4, to me, and to a great many others, does not feel like a Fallout game. I've been trying to pin down why, failed playthrough after failed playthrough. Is it the lack of real choice? It's it the insultingly bad 4 option dialogue wheel? Is it the amount of colour? The animations? The 'newness'?

Yes and no.

I think those are small parts of the problem, they get, but by themselves they shouldn't effect the feel of the game.

To me, fallout 4's world just doesn't feel like a Fallout world. I know Fallout is supposed to be wacky, I get that, I love that about it. But 4 just seems to be trying too hard. That, combined with the utterly lazy construction of the world really just destroys this game, which is a goddanm shame, because I was hoping for so much. There's oh so so much I can talk about about the lazy world building and mechanics building, the fact that they destroyed what could've been an amazing crafting system with grindy mechanics, the fact that they made every single one of the 'enemies' in the game hostile on sight, the half baked stack of shit that is the settlement system, how damn casual they made the whole experience, it just all adds up to make the game feel too different. In my eyes, it's not a proper Fallout game, or at the very least, it is nothing like what I was expecting, wishing and hoping for. Call me a fanboy, pick apart my comment with a fine tooth comb, tell me I haven't played enough of a game that I detest, (not because it's bad necessary, but because of what it means for my favourite game franchise. If Bethesda carry on down the route they've started with 4, I will lose my favourite game franchise, and I don't want that to happen.) I don't care, I've said my bit, that is how I feel, no matter how subjective it Is
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:18 am

I can't say that F4 is game of year, or should get the GOTY edition. But really it have some pluses and some minuses which describe here.

Pluses:
1. Main Character is from Pre-War World, which says it good idea.
2. Reveal theme about Institute which is had a minor side-quest in F3, very intresting
3. All available companions described very great, especially Curie.
4. Game have a good plot, but it's not fault that the game don't have a total success.
5. More and more locations, you have a atomic station, a crashed aircraft, a submarine and many-many locations.
6. Crafting - it little bit boring, but expanding settlement is good idea. It really boring without tgm code.
7. Power Armor - it is not a cure for all troubles in game.
8. There are many easter eggs, for saving time watch YouTube.
9. Showing problems about relationship of synths and humans, great idea.

Then we get to the minuses:

1. A system of dialogue which become a full meme. And there is no check of skills, i mean there is only check of speech and 4 options of dialogue which is really bad.
2. Like i said there are many locations, but they are empty and you don't find intresting, at least some low-level loot/ghouls/synths/supermutants/raiders and if you are so lucky at least some notes you find.
3. Two endings of four is little bit contrast, the other two endings there are clones which are have little update.
4. The protagonist is from the old world, but this is not fully disclosed and used in the plot.
5. The protagonists companions are interesting in themselves, but all relations with them are reduced to three dialogues and a bonus perk with the highest level of relations.
6. There are unique characters which you meet and finish they're quests will be have no attention on you.
7. Animation of faces, the Bethesda was always have problems with this.
8. Idleness, incompleteness practucally from the start.

What can i say about F4 - 6/10, but i really wanted to rate this like 5/10. There are many to say, but i described only what i saw. I will not say anything about holes in plot, because it will take at least at 4 or 5 pages. And this was my only opinion.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:33 am

@quicksilver500 What you said couldn't be any more spot on with my opinion

New Vegas is a mess, but it's a mess I'm addicted to, and modding the F*ck out of it to improve on all the bad things is a game in itself

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:39 am

I liked 3, I liked NV, I like 4. Someone would call me heretic. Some would call me fanboy. But I find good in all games, and I have fair share of my criticism on all. There are things I loathe in 4, things I mod out in 3 and NV on heartbeat, but on their very core I think they all fit and work well on the time they are made.

How we feel regarding something in life - we cannot change. And we cannot like everything or hate the same things. Such is life and such are human beings.

I have been judged strongly in other communities for liking or not liking things I do, but debates or finger pointing wouldn't change my opinion. So it is alright, in my eyes, to say FO4 is not feeling as a FO game. I do not share the sentiment fully. I do believe they made it too safe, too happy, too mainstream, too --- not funny or humorous, but I still think it is a Fallout game. Not perhaps as good it could have been, but surely one of my favorite games all time.

We like, we dislike - and that makes us human and we cannot change it.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:56 am

I definitely agree about it not being a true Fallout game. I say that to my friends all the time who give me these crazy ass faces. It's a good game it really is just not a good Fallout one. No amount of lore and backstory is gonna fix its horrible horrible horrible (did I say horrible) dialogue system. Not only that you don't feel the weight of any of your choices. Fallout New Vegas is the best Fallout game so far and the truest

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:42 am

@"Eikeegi" I absolutely agree with what you said. Truly a beautiful statement Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:03 am

@"Sentra" Animation in faces? I bet you've never played a Deus Ex game before.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:05 am

@"thepirateofthegame" I want LA Noire levels of facial animations!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:08 am

@corvo, -1 rep for flaming

Anyway, yeah, I can't say I enjoyed fallout 4 more than New Vegas, you know what I did like it more than? 3. Four at least has enjoyable combat, somewhat deep companions, and a series of extra tat that I find enjoyable, and I've finished it twice. I have finished 3 once and tried to go back to it several times, I don't know what people are talking about when they praise it's story! When fo4 came out I expected the story to be dismal, bethesda haven't been cultivators of good story telling since arguably Oblivion, and I say arguably because a lot of people have told me that they think Oblivion's storytelling is bad and that bethesda hasn't been good with stories since Morrowind or even Daggerfall.

That being said, I don't think the story is what ultimately contributed to the heavy criticism of fo4. I think it was the perks and... lets say "simplification" of other RPG elements. When it happened to Skyrim there wasn't a huge upset (although, mind you, there are many, MANY people in the TES fandom that HATE skyrim) because TES has always been marketed as an action RPG, which is more associated with combat, dungeon crawling, and leveling up so that you're better at combat (yes I know that Arena was made bc the creators realized the side-quests were more fun than the actual ARENA idea, but those quests revolved around combat and dungeon crawling).

Fallout, on the other hand, is something that is extremely dear to old RPG fans. Fallout has always been about world building, story telling, and character progression. So when you take that series and apply a story that doesn't give the mc many opportunities to subtly and slowly change, harps upon throw away fanfic thoughts like "what if the bomb hit DC" or "What if the bomb hit a city based state that was heavy with skyscrapers", and then don't even fully expound on those ideas, instead favoring old fan favorites that don't make sense in that context (bethesda's super mutants can eat my ass), and THEN begin to favor that way of handling the series more and more over time- of course fans are going to fall away. Of course they're going to not like it as much.

This change started with 3, much like the change in TES started with Oblivion. Todd Howard said they made a lot of wrong moves with 4 and I hope he takes that to heart because if he doesn't then in ten years time Fallout will be dead and we still wont have TES 6.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:20 am

@Corvo where did your big essay go? Surprised I was looking forward to reading that when I had 6 hours to spare Sad
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:31 pm

@thepirateofthegame i can say 'bout Skyrim
No emotion, nuff said

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:33 pm

@quicksilver500  I can happily repost it, but it just felt like I went off topic a bit so I removed it.

@Screw4ff do you know what flaming is or is that the mob mentality kicking in?

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:45 pm

@Corvo okie dokie

@Screw4ff in case you don't Urban Dictionary defines it as:

"flaming
1. To engage in an online argument usually involving unfounded personal attacks by one or more parties.

2. To be blatantly homosexual in the stereotypical way."

Could be either tbh Wink

(That was a joke @Corvo, pls no angry)
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:56 pm

@GoofyGoo6er Do you realize the L.A. Noire devs used an expensive and time cosuming technology that would skyrocket the budget of a large scale open-world game like Fallout 4? Your expectations are not realistic yet, although the approach that CD Projekt Red took with W3 is definitely something Bethesda should strive to achieve, as it is the closest thing to having great facial animations without using motion capture.

Anyway, I apologize for going off topic in relation to the OP's post, I just thought this needed to be explained.
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:13 am

@"VWgolfR1" Yep, I am entirely aware! Smile My post involving that was mostly to poke fun at the 'animation' of some of the dialogue. I remember staring, in half horror/offence, at Mama Murphy talking in Concord. With her nasty little weird teeth and creepy lip animations. I went into the GECK and slapped a sack hood since. What a creep.

I think that if they added the 'evil' options, got rid of that abhorrent dialogue choice system (oh you didn't want to really know what you were saying, did you?), and added more funny/sassy remarks (the sarcastic was a great step in the right direction, things would be a lot better.

In their defense, their implementation of a full weather system finally (finally!!!) made it seem like a more organic, breathable world to explore. One thing that bugged me in previous games was how everything was just sunny and overcast. I know engine limitations etc, but just my opinion.

I know these don't seem like RPG elements, but for me, I really value the world around the character, and take that into account for the entire RPG experience. All just opinion. I would much rather be jumping around in metro stations/buildings in FO3 than in a desert (because it makes me think of sweat and I hate sweating). Both provide their own rpg experience.

Okay, my early morning, pre-coffee rant is over with now! I apologize if it went on/off topic. It makes perfect sense in my head!! lol
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