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 [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game

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PostSubject: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:51 am

I've been playing the game for quite a while now. I already have 30 hours of playing so I think that's already a good amount of playtime. However, this game just doesn't feel right you know? On a physical level, its a damn Fallout game! It really is, but when you play the game it just feels so odd. I don't know if its trying to be some other game or what, but it makes me wonder why some fans like this game. Maybe for its shooting or looks? I really don't know.

I went back to Nuka World just to get some steam achievements and such, but the longer I play the DLC, the more it feels like Borderlands 2: Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep. Sure the guns are alright, some look cool, power armor looks cool enough, but that shit wears down eventually. Without a solid foundation, all of that would just crumble like a granola bar. I have to be honest though :/ I had fun with Fallout 4 alright? I had a bit of fun with it. It got even exciting when I finally got the Gauss Rifle (my favorite weapon of all time), but as soon as I finished killing the Courser and doing some missions, it got so boring. Everything is dealt with shooting enemy npcs and thats it. If the game didnt have Vault Tec stuff in it and mutated creatures, I would have seen this as Far Cry: Nuclear; a collab project between Ubisoft and Bethesda. And the loading times...THE FUCKIGN LOADING TIMES GOD!!!!!!!!!!!! It was the main reason why it pulled me back from entering places because those fucking loading times are so slow I was able to read a book while playing the game.

To all those who liked the game, that's really great because you found some light in it, but to me Fallout 4 really felt like an arcade game. I could leave it and then forget about it and then come back to it again. There are no consequence to any of your actions. I was expecting something like a shootout in the Railroad HQ when I brought Paladin Danse along, but hoho no no no no...Bethesda wouldn't want that! Last night, I brought Strong to the Prydwen and again, no one got mad. Not one shot was fired. I remember in FNV, if you go to Cottonwood Cove with Boone, there's gonna be a shootout. The entire game feels so fake. It feels so programmed (duh its a fucking game). I never even felt immersed with the world. It was as like I'm just a spectator to the events of the Commonwealth. Just a quick note, Dunwich Borers is so damn overrated -___- At the end of the it, you get a good looking knife with some nice effects and that's it. If I was Bethesda, Fallout needs to go back to its roots; haunting ambient, menacing enemies, and a believable world.

Time to head to Metro Last Light.
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:26 am

Yeah, I get your problems you have with the game, but I have to ask, have you ever stopped what you were doing and just went to explore? Like, downtown Boston, all those crazy buildings have cool stuff in it! Like for example, did you know their is a place called hallucinogen that is just as sick and twisted as the vault tec experiments? All I’m saying is, there is so much lore and backstory to this game. You just gotta find it.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:13 am

Yeah I've done that a lot since I figured with all the stuff going on in game, there would be some really interesting points like Hallucinogen. A while ago, I was at General Atomics Galleria and after a while I found a sinkhole with a Deathclaw. This game really likes to do some nostalgia punches like the SAFE test at Covenant and the lady from DC with the Nuka Cola Museum (forgot her name). There really is a ton of lore and backstory in this game, but something just really feels off. Maybe i need to take a break from it first
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:14 am

@njmanga097 wrote:
I've been playing the game for quite a while now. I already have 30 hours of playing so I think that's already a good amount of playtime. However, this game just doesn't feel right you know? On a physical level, its a damn Fallout game! It really is, but when you play the game it just feels so odd. I don't know if its trying to be some other game or what, but it makes me wonder why some fans like this game. Maybe for its shooting or looks? I really don't know.

That's cool. I have 519 hours in Fallout 4 while I have 664 hours in New Vegas (on Steam). Plus, "it doesn't feel right" isn't a logical point, as "feeling" is subjective. I personally hate the feeling of walking some dead empty desert for hours when others probably love it. Fallout 4 does feel like it takes some inspiration from other games, yes, but Fallout 4 was experimental. The voiced protagonist and new perk system was pretty much a gamble by Bethesda. Many other RPGs have a voiced protagonist, like Mass Effect or the Witcher, so saying it's not an RPG "becuz vooooiiccced prottagonist" is not a valid point and quite clearly biased in favor of the other games and not Fallout 4. People like Fallout 4 because it is a game that's fun and can be replayed and explored to death countless times (less than 3 and 4, but this falls under the voiced protag. It took double the time for one quest to be created).

@njmanga097 wrote:
but as soon as I finished killing the Courser and doing some missions, it got so boring. Everything is dealt with shooting enemy npcs and thats it. If the game didnt have Vault Tec stuff in it and mutated creatures, I would have seen this as Far Cry: Nuclear; a collab project between Ubisoft and Bethesda. And the loading times...THE FUCKIGN LOADING TIMES GOD!!!!!!!!!!!! It was the main reason why it pulled me back from entering places because those fucking loading times are so slow I was able to read a book while playing the game.

Fallout: New Vegas requires you to shoot NPCs, so does 3. Hell even the older games like 1 or 2 require you to shoot NPCs. There are also quests in Fallout 4 that can be solved without combat like in the other games. You should be used to it by now. If loading times are a problem with 4 why are the game breaking bugs not a problem in New Vegas? Once again, you're clearly biased.

@njmanga097 wrote:
but to me Fallout 4 really felt like an arcade game. I could leave it and then forget about it and then come back to it again. There are no consequence to any of your actions. I was expecting something like a shootout in the Railroad HQ when I brought Paladin Danse along, but hoho no no no no...Bethesda wouldn't want that! Last night, I brought Strong to the Prydwen and again, no one got mad. Not one shot was fired. I remember in FNV, if you go to Cottonwood Cove with Boone, there's gonna be a shootout. The entire game feels so fake. It feels so programmed (duh its a fucking game). I never even felt immersed with the world. It was as like I'm just a spectator to the events of the Commonwealth. Just a quick note, Dunwich Borers is so damn overrated -___- At the end of the it, you get a good looking knife with some nice effects and that's it. If I was Bethesda, Fallout needs to go back to its roots; haunting ambient, menacing enemies, and a believable world.

To say there isn't any consequence to your actions is downright false. You can choose to avoid the Minutemen which lowers the numbers of endings you can get because you can't use the Minutemen, you can side with the Minutemen at the cost of the Sentinel rank in the BoS, you can do typical bad karma actions that result in your companions leaving you (or good karma with some companions), or the times where you can hack the Institute's mainframe, send it back to the Brotherhood which lets them know Danse is a synth so you have to go and kill him (or convince Maxson to outcast him instead)? Just another kind of hypocrisy in favor of New Vegas. Now here I will admit I don't know why companions are allowed in the areas they are, but it isn't too disturbing you have to bash the game for it, right? Plus, it makes sense for a lot of the companions to be allowed onto the Prydwen because you're a high ranking member of the BoS and can make exceptions.

Once again, some bias here. You say it feels like you're a spectator, when in reality, you can take over the Commonwealth with the Institute and have everybody fear and hate you, or you can do it with other factions and be hated or loved by certain people. It makes perfect sense. If it feels like you're a spectator in 4, it sure as hell does in New Vegas and 3.

I can agree with you where Bethesda needs to go back to their roots, and I have said this countless times before. Fallout 3 had an excellent atmosphere, a game that felt real, a game that gave off a feeling that a wasteland should. The wasteland felt dangerous, like you had to watch your every turn for enemies. Fallout 4 has no real atmosphere. It feels like plastic in a sense, but I know many people could disagree with me like I disagree with you in many points.

I recommend playing more than 30 hours of the game so you have more to judge it for. I personally see many points with the game that could've been done a little bit better, like more opportunities for storyline branching, a better atmosphere and a wider variety of companions. I just don't understand why people compare it to New Vegas and make exceptions for it. Judge it for what it is instead of comparing it to the older game because it looks cool. The older games are inferior to 4 in many aspects, like 4 is inferior to them in some. There's more improvements in total.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:14 am

@Corvo wrote:
People like Fallout 4 because it is a game that's fun and can be replayed and explored to death countless times (less than 3 and 4, but this falls under the voiced protag. It took double the time for one quest to be created).


Is just as subjective as when @njmanga097 said that he doesn't like the 'feel' of 4. I personally don't think that 4 can be played 'countless' times, relative to the older games, 3 and NV offered many many times more customise-ability and role playing options, and I can't play 4 as anything other than a caring father looking for his son, and yes, this is because of the voiced protagonist. That system works for Mass Effect and The Witcher because you are always a set character, and the role playing is integrated elsewhere in the game. In fallout, on the other hand, the character creation is marketed abs implemented as part of the role playing, which simply doesn't work with a voiced protagonist. To me, fallout just doesn't work with a voiced protagonist.

@Corvo wrote:
Fallout: New Vegas requires you to shoot NPCs, so does 3. Hell even the older games like 1 or 2 require you to shoot NPCs. There are also quests in Fallout 4 that can be solved without combat like in the other games. You should be used to it by now. If loading times are a problem with 4 why are the game breaking bugs not a problem in New Vegas? Once again, you're clearly biased.

@njmanga097 was not complaining about having to shoot npc's and you know it, you are being deliberately pedantic and satirical. The problem with 4 is that every single quest feels like the same grind of "go here, kill things, come back". Now I know that 3 and NV had their fair share of radiant-esque go-kill-return quests, but those games added a much larger variety of characters, reasons, locations and stories for these types of quests, along with having many, many more types of quests to augment the go-kill-return ones. There was a lot more time and effort put into the quests in 3 and NV, and it shows in spades.

As a side note, of course @njmanga097 is going to be 'bias', he's sharing his opinion, so so fucking what if he's biased?

@Corvo wrote:
To say there isn't any consequence to your actions is downright false. You can choose to avoid the Minutemen which lowers the numbers of endings you can get because you can't use the Minutemen, you can side with the Minutemen at the cost of the Sentinel rank in the BoS, you can do typical bad karma actions that result in your companions leaving you (or good karma with some companions), or the times where you can hack the Institute's mainframe, send it back to the Brotherhood which lets them know Danse is a synth so you have to go and kill him (or convince Maxson to outcast him instead)? Just another kind of hypocrisy in favor of New Vegas. Now here I will admit I don't know why companions are allowed in the areas they are, but it isn't too disturbing you have to bash the game for it, right? Plus, it makes sense for a lot of the companions to be allowed onto the Prydwen because you're a high ranking member of the BoS and can make exceptions.

It's funny how you defend the lack of consequences in Fallout 4 by using an example that has no consequences. When you save Danse by disobeying a direct order from your commanding officer what happens? Nothing. Absolutely nothing negative happens and everyone goes on as they did before. They're are no meaningful consequences for your actions in 4 and it makes no sense. In NV if you kill a bunch of ncr troopers on patrol you become vilified, the ncr don't get on with you anymore, and will attack you on sight. Do the same thing to a BoS patrol in 4? Nothing. No one says anything, no one cares. As long as you don't attack the Prydwen you can slaughter hundreds of BoS soldiers and still be maxon's best buddy.


Finally:
@Corvo wrote:
The older games are inferior to 4 in many aspects, like 4 is inferior to them in some. There's more improvements in total.

I disagree.
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:13 am

@quicksilver500 Never did I say once that 4 had more replayability than 3 or NV (in fact, I admitted the opposite). All I said was is that Fallout 4 has it's fair share of replayability, more so than a game like say, Assassin's Creed, or Call Of Duty. I have played through the game more times than I can count, and I was nothing like the default character of "Nate". In fact I did some pretty screwed up bad karma stuff in Fallout 4 and it was pretty fun. Also, character creation is existent within Fallout 4, and if you do not like the voiced protagonist, fair enough. I feel it's a valid criticism, but I don't feel as if it affects the game too much to the point where it isn't an RPG anymore.

Are we forgetting that 4 has quests where you meet new characters and explore new locations? What about finding Virgil in the Glowing Sea, discovering the Institute and hacking their mainframe, or even having the flashbacks to both Kellogg and the Sole Survivor's memories in the Memory Den, adding a whole new layer to both NPCs and protagonist. What about the main plot twist that Father is Shaun, which is still heavily debated? How about where you have to encourage Travis, and he becomes a more confident radio host in the end? Once again, I think you're making various exceptions when it comes to NV and 3. When you compare a game to another, at least do it right. New Vegas had quests where all you did was go talk to BoS scouts, kill some giant ants and go down short questlines where you had to complete other short questlines to fulfill one big questline. I'd much rather a questline like 4's than "go get accepted by four factions and come back to us".

The problem is he's ranting against something he knows not a lot of and is biased. Do you think it's a fair statement for me to say a game like Mass Effect: Andromeda is not a Mass Effect game, when I haven't experienced it to the full extent? 30 Hours is not a long time at all. You could complete the main questline in 30 hours, but to judge it fairly you have to play it and examine it to such extent where it's a fair and unbiased review. I'm not saying he's biased because he likes the previous game, I'm saying he's jumped into the game with a mindset it's going to be bad, played through it once and complained about it. The first time I played through NV for my first 20-40 hours, I went straight back to 3. It was only until I played it more often to rack up a fair amount of playthroughs that I felt it was fair to make a final judgement. Maybe he should lay off basing his rants on first impressions.

With Danse, you could've saved him, or killed him, or you could've avoided it. That's three decisions, although not many, it is one decision off being a typical Fallout NV or 3 quest. Being Bethesda had less time (as I've said with the voiced protag), I personally forgive them for this. This could be a valid criticism, as it's not about the production and much more about the end result, but personally I think it is a nitpick with how much content 4 has. The quest is also one of the best quests in Fallout 4 because it actually has emotion in it for most people. It changes what the player thinks of the synths in the questline, as they have formed a bond with Danse all throughout the BoS questline. It is deep and intricate, more so than anything I can say for 3 and NV.

When you talk of the reputation system in NV, it still exists in 4, although to different extents. Fallout NV had it so when you kill an NCR ranger, everybody knows. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense how I can stealth kill a ranger, drag his body into the ocean and be vilified for an action nobody knows I committed. Are the factions in NV psychics or what? With the factions in 4, it makes sense for them to know because they see you attack them. For example, when you fight the Brotherhood/Institute to take the Beryllium agitator, the Institute/Brotherhood sees you steal it and side against them, therefore they are hostile from there on out. Also, the reputation system in NV is not only absurd in that sense, but in the fact that even if you kill as many NCR rangers/Legates as you please, you'd still get forgiven by these factions anyway, so in that sense, nobody cares in NV.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:39 am

@Corvo I'm sorry, but as you said yourself;

@Corvo wrote:
Plus, "it doesn't feel right" isn't a logical point, as "feeling" is subjective.

So when you say:

@Corvo wrote:
I feel it's a valid criticism, but I don't feel as if it affects the game too much to the point where it isn't an RPG anymore.

I'm afraid that's subjective as well, so whatever.

Also, you tell me to "When you compare a game to another, at least do it right." And then proceed to compare the main quest of 4 to the radiant quests of NV. If that's your version of a fair comparison I think you have a few things to learn.

As a side note, I prefer the NV main quest because at least it was different and flexible depending on your playthrough. 4's is literally the exact same no matter what faction you chose.

@Corvo wrote:
30 Hours is not a long time at all. You could complete the main questline in 30 hours, but to judge it fairly you have to play it and examine it to such extent where it's a fair and unbiased review. I'm not saying he's biased because he likes the previous game, I'm saying he's jumped into the game with a mindset it's going to be bad, played through it once and complained about it. The first time I played through NV for my first 20-40 hours, I went straight back to 3. It was only until I played it more often to rack up a fair amount of playthroughs that I felt it was fair to make a final judgement. Maybe he should lay off basing his rants on first impressions.


My problem with this argument is twofold. Number one: you're telling someone that they don't know how they really feel about something and that they should force themselves to pay a game they don't like so that they'll eventually learn to enjoy it. I mean, what?
Secondly, if @njmanga097 goes away and plays constantly for 3 years and comes back with the same opinion, you would say something along the lines of "Dude, you played this game for 2000 hours and you're telling me you didn't actually like it? Lol, yeah right" so, to me, that argument is horseshit because you can't 'win' against it either way. If he doesn't like the game after playing through it for over a day's worth of time, I think he's entitled to that.

@Corvo wrote:
When you talk of the reputation system in NV, it still exists in 4, although to different extents. Fallout NV had it so when you kill an NCR ranger, everybody knows. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense how I can stealth kill a ranger, drag his body into the ocean and be vilified for an action nobody knows I committed. Are the factions in NV psychics or what?

This is actually either a bare faced lie or you are completely mistaken. If you successfully stealth kill a ranger (or any other ncr personnel) with no one seeing you there is no reputation decrease whatsoever, simple as.

@Corvo wrote:
But in the fact that even if you kill as many NCR rangers/Legates as you please, you'd still get forgiven by these factions anyway, so in that sense, nobody cares in NV.

What are you referring to here? :/
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:22 pm

@quicksilver500 wrote:
@Corvo I'm sorry, but as you said yourself;

@Corvo wrote:
Plus, "it doesn't feel right" isn't a logical point, as "feeling" is subjective.

So when you say:

@Corvo wrote:
I feel it's a valid criticism, but I don't feel as if it affects the game too much to the point where it isn't an RPG anymore.

I'm afraid that's subjective as well, so whatever.

First, I never said it written in stone did I? I just shared my own opinion on it. Like I said it's still a valid criticism.

@quicksilver500 wrote:
Also, you tell me to "When you compare a game to another, at least do it right." And then proceed to compare the main quest of 4 to the radiant quests of NV. If that's your version of a fair comparison I think you have a few things to learn.

As a side note, I prefer the NV main quest because at least it was different and flexible depending on your playthrough. 4's is literally the exact same no matter what faction you chose.

I compared the main quests of 4 to the BoS and Boomer quests of NV, which are pretty much the storyline being that the main factions tell you to become accepted by these factions. NCR, House, Independent and Legion have all the same quests where they tell you to go and appease the same factions pretty much. It's hard to say that BoS and Boomers are radiant quests when they're involved in the main storyline.

Ironic how you say 4's is the same no matter what faction you choose, when New Vegas is the same too. With 4, you get to eradicate all synths, free the synths, enslave the synths, or just settle your differences and go after the Institute with the Minutemen. In New Vegas, 2 endings are basically the same (House and Independent, where no factions truly win except for the player or House). The other two endings are just plain black and white endings. Caesar is bad, NCR is good. New Vegas in a nutshell.

@quicksilver500 wrote:
@Corvo wrote:
30 Hours is not a long time at all. You could complete the main questline in 30 hours, but to judge it fairly you have to play it and examine it to such extent where it's a fair and unbiased review. I'm not saying he's biased because he likes the previous game, I'm saying he's jumped into the game with a mindset it's going to be bad, played through it once and complained about it. The first time I played through NV for my first 20-40 hours, I went straight back to 3. It was only until I played it more often to rack up a fair amount of playthroughs that I felt it was fair to make a final judgement. Maybe he should lay off basing his rants on first impressions.

My problem with this argument is twofold. Number one: you're telling someone that they don't know how they really feel about something and that they should force themselves to pay a game they don't like so that they'll eventually learn to enjoy it. I mean, what?
Secondly, if @njmanga097 goes away and plays constantly for 3 years and comes back with the same opinion, you would say something along the lines of "Dude, you played this game for 2000 hours and you're telling me you didn't actually like it? Lol, yeah right" so, to me, that argument is horseshit because you can't 'win' against it either way. If he doesn't like the game after playing through it for over a day's worth of time, I think he's entitled to that.

Stop using strawmen. I never once said he's not being honest with himself. I said he should review the game after he's fully experienced it. If I never played NV, would it be fair for me to play the game for a few hours and make rants online where I criticize the game for it's flaws but never experience it's good points? I'm saying he should put a few more hours in so he can fully experience the game. I'm sure if he ranted about NV after hundreds of hours, his arguments might be a little more believable. He would never rant about New Vegas, now would he? Never point out what's bad about New Vegas, in fair of backlash. 4 is an easier target, so why play the game for a few hundred hours when he can play it for 30 and look cool to his NV elitist buddies?

Also, if he plays the game for more than 30 hours and comes back and forms his final opinion on the game, and it's negative, fair enough. That's his opinion on the game. Everybody has opinions. But to play 30 and act like New Vegas is way better when you have played hundreds of hours in it is just plain biased. I know he won't judge New Vegas after all those hours now would he? 4 is an easier target.

@quicksilver500 wrote:
@Corvo wrote:
When you talk of the reputation system in NV, it still exists in 4, although to different extents. Fallout NV had it so when you kill an NCR ranger, everybody knows. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense how I can stealth kill a ranger, drag his body into the ocean and be vilified for an action nobody knows I committed. Are the factions in NV psychics or what?

This is actually either a bare faced lie or you are completely mistaken. If you successfully stealth kill a ranger (or any other ncr personnel) with no one seeing you there is no reputation decrease whatsoever, simple as.

No. I clearly remember killing a group of NCR rangers on a highway far away from any settlements, yet I got vilified by the NCR and had them send a hit squad out to warn me. I have played the game numerous times and know this happens even if I use a silenced .22 marshmallow shooter.

@quicksilver500 wrote:

@Corvo wrote:
But in the fact that even if you kill as many NCR rangers/Legates as you please, you'd still get forgiven by these factions anyway, so in that sense, nobody cares in NV.

What are you referring to here? :/

After visiting Benny and Mr. House, you get the Legionary tell you have the mark of Caesar, forgiving you even if you've killed many of them. Same with the NCR forgiving you. Anything you have done up to that point is basically forgotten. What a great reputation system NV has lol.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:09 pm

You know what it really is? It's the art style.

After 10 years of seeing Fo3/NV styled deathclaws, armors, creatures, armor, clothing, etc. it doesn't feel like we are playing the Fallout we know. When you look at the armors in Fo4, sometimes I'm put off by how realistic it is. I think it's that HYPERREALISM that makes it feel less like Fallout and more like Far Cry or anything else.

Everyone knows the story sucks, so that's why I ain't covering that. It's the visuals that make us take a step back.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:12 pm

Fallout 4 seems really "casualfied" compared to past games. There's less RPG elements that make Fallout games great and it's more focused on the gunplay and building. The gunplay is great and the building is a nice addition, but without the dialogue, story, and characters it doesn't feel like a Fallout game.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:26 pm

@Corvo
Down-voted for condescension and attempting to shoot down a regular ole' opinion.
( I heard we have to provide a reason, so there it is. )

Now... For the actual meat!
I liked Fallout 4, the more I play it, the more I'm liking it.
While I do think it's a hard right turn from other games in the series, I'd still call it fallout any-day of the week. In the end, to me, it's more about the feel of the world and general atmosphere which Fallout 4 got down pretty well.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:06 pm

There are a lot of things Fallout 4 did right that previous games did wrong. However, there are also a lot of things Fallout 4 did wrong that previous games did right. It's not perfect, but it's not horrible either.

To paraphrase a post I read a while ago:

Josh Sawyer once explained how they, Obsidian, handled a game world in which every NPC is killable. What they did was operate under the assumption that for some reason, the quest giver dies immediately after giving the quest to the player. Then everything further related to the quest follows from this assumption, so the end result is a game that let's you kill just about anybody, and can still progress taking their deaths into consideration. This fact alone is one of the biggest indicators of why Fallout 4 is not as good of an RPG as New Vegas and why many just can't stick with it.

Bethesda prefer stories that progress in a mostly fixed route. This is why they have essential characters in their games. They have some great side quests and pieces of lore, but even these side quests usually have no effects outside of themselves.


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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:47 pm

Bethesda probably saw how successful Bioware was with their preset protagonists, skill trees, and dialogue wheel and thought that could work for Fallout 4. Boy oh boy were they wrong. The thing is that Fallout's protagonists are YOU. You have the control to create your protagonist from the ground up. New Vegas did this extremely well with the fact that what is canonically known about you at the beginning of the game is that you were just a courier that was unfortunately shot in the dome. You could go buck wild with creating your character. You can determine their overall attitude and outlook on the world. You can actually make your courier evil unlike Fallout 4. Fallout 4 WANTS you to be a goody two shoes vault survivor that just so happened to be a soldier/lawyer back in the pre-war days. New Vegas looks at you killing the good people at Goodsprings and says "Eh, let them have their fun".

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:53 pm

I really do understand where a lot of people are coming from. I've put several hundred hours in FO4 and I like it, but the only reason why I put so much time into was due to mods. Not saying I didn't enjoy the base game, I did, but I felt it was a little bland. I've been playing TTW for the first time, and I cannot put the game(s) down. I just get a feel of adventure, survival, and struggle when playing FO3 with Hardcore mode on, something I never really felt while playing survival mode in FO4. I enjoy the Fallout series( even FO4) but I feel like it just sor of strayed. That's my two cents on the subject.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:31 am

@IIHawkerII wrote:
@Corvo
Down-voted for condescension and attempting to shoot down a regular ole' opinion.
( I heard we have to provide a reason, so there it is. )

Cry me a river.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:51 am

I think you're comparing FO4 too much with NV. I mean, how can you say FO4 is not a Fallout game just because is "odd"? If that was the case then NV nor FO3 are Fallout games since they are so different from the originals. The only bad thing that kind of ruined FO4 for me was the new dialogue system where you always have the same 4 bullshit options but that can improve with new Fallout games (I hope). Everything seems meh or better than other Fallout games, especially the AI because in NV and FO3 they are fucking useless.

I actually think that FO4 is quite enjoyable with mods just like the previous games. I'm actually one of the few people that think that vanilla NV isn't a great game. I mean, seriously, you're a terminator-mailman that is so dedicated to his job he would cross the entire mojave wasteland to get a package he lost. But, with mods the game is the best out of all of them (in my opinion).

I think is easy to say that FO4 isn't exactly what you expected and that's why you didn't like it and that is a fair reason, everyone have different tastes and opinions, I just think is unfair to say that "FO4 is definitely no Fallout game" just because you didn't like it.

I don't mean to offend anyone, I just gave my personal opinion like OP did.
...btw, loading times, totally agree. Apparently the only thing that helps with that is an ssd card.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:08 am

@mpaz96 wrote:
I don't mean to offend anyone, I just gave my personal opinion like OP did.

Don't worry. You never offended anybody other than the half-baked Obsidian fanboys.

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:38 am

this thread is gonna give me a good few days of entertainment i can already tell

#blessed

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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:13 pm

I remember when Fallout 3 came out, I didn't think it was a real game because 'it was in 3d' and combat 'wasn't strictly turn-based'. Granted, I played 1,2, and tactics WAYY to young, and 1 gave me nightmares (the ghouls) (oh well).

The best thing I can suggest is to make consequences for yourself. You save danse? You don't interact with any BOS anymore, or you shoot on sight. Not ideal, but definite workarouds! (I also recommend the everyone is killable mod. Makes everyone protected, meaning you can kill important npcs, but only you can!)

Just my thoughts Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [RANT] FO4 is definitely no Fallout game   Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:28 pm

I personally think that @"mpaz96" had one of the better arguments on here. It's very similar to how I see, which is that F4 is somewhat fun(especially with mods). That doesn't mean it's a fun game for some people, but for others, it gives them more content to explore within their favorite franchise.

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