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 On Adult and Explicit Worldbuilding

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Orth

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PostSubject: On Adult and Explicit Worldbuilding   Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:09 pm

Hey guys. The other day I posted my Sanctuary screencap on the Nexus (one in which you can see a neon sign that reads "raiders will be raped" ) and a couple days after it got removed for the rape joke. It had no explicit content other than just letters.

Now, I don't really mind at all that it got removed, but it got me thinking on the hypocrisy of it all, I mean, it is a post apocalyptic world, in which mutilation, torture and murder are an everyday occurence, people post pictures of destroyed human bodies, and that's ok and hilarious, but for some reason, anything regarding sex is somehow considered "crossing the line". And it did strike me as quite a reflexion of our time, in which brutal and unnatural things like gratuitous massacres are somehow less offensive to people that anything regarding a natural instinct like reproduction or sexuality in general.

I wanna make clear that I'm not trying to crusade against the Nexus or anyone who applies this sort of rules (they apply here aswell) , private domains have a right to censor or not whatever they see fit, and they're completely within their right to do so.

That being said, don't you find it a bit ilogical? I mean, I understand that allowing for sexual content as a general rule can open itself to people posting screenshots in unacceptable settings, such as pedophilic content and depraved kinky shit, and I would agree that that kind of stuff should not be allowed under any circumstance. But you'd think there's a sweet spot in between both. I mean, if we are adults and can easily not feel threatened by murder and mutilation, whe should be able to handle the fact that in a world like that, there would probably be A LOT of raping, a lot of commerce around that type of activity and whatnot, and sugar coating it, to me, feels unrealistic.

But this problem does not only apply to online communities at all, which brings me to the main point I wanted to make. I feel as if Bethesda made a pretty calculated approach to their world building in the Fallout franchise. One in which violence is constant, but for some reason that same violence doesn't apply to sexual themes or explicit talks about the torturings and whatnot. I feel like New Vegas had way more realistic world building in this regard, NPC's would talk about the attrocities comitted by the Legion constantly, you would see them, and the game would make a point in the fact that this was happening. While they didn't talk about it as if it happenned all the time , the overall theme of the vanilla game was fairly honest.

Of course, a foundational part of the world building of New Vegas for me was the someguy2000's mod series. New Vegas Bounties 1-3 + all the other quest mods. He introduced a much more direct and explicit approach to realities that developers barely dared to hint at, and it is, in a great part, what has made NV the best Fallout in my opinion.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, wouldn't you think it would have been way more immersive to take the mature approach in regards to exploring the worst parts of the human behaviour?

I mean, to me it feels more personal to kill a guy who I can tell is a pedo, or a rapist or overall a piece of shit, than some generic "I'm a bad guy cuz I like dem violence tings". To a degree, the game needs to offend you to implicate you. It needs to stir up feelings of rejection on the player, since it's what makes it feel a hostile post apocalyptic world. People shouldn't behave as if there was a status-quo any more, cause there hasn't been for 200 years. No law, no gods, so why are they all so kind and childish? Even raiders who turn people into furniture are fairly naive in the way they express themselves.

Idk, what do you guys think?



Staff Edit
Though It's great to to air your opinions, and though they are valid, this topic is more or less becoming a dig at other groups within society, so for the time being it's being locked to prevent any major arguments unfolding.


~JJHughes


Last edited by JJHughes on Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:00 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Locked topic)
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Garska

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PostSubject: Re: On Adult and Explicit Worldbuilding   Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:46 pm

I don't think Bethesda or the Nexus is the problem. The problem is the society. As you can see everydays, there is ads with (half) naked photoshopped womans, but when a mother breastfeed her baby, it's illegal.
The society works with christian-jewish rules, where sexuality and womans are taboo.

(My english might be hard to read or understand, excuse me for that)

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PostSubject: Re: On Adult and Explicit Worldbuilding   Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:53 pm

Oh the horror if someone should be OFFENDED!!! Except, the libtards get to define what's offensive and what is not based on their agenda.
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Orth

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PostSubject: Re: On Adult and Explicit Worldbuilding   Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:29 pm

@Garska wrote:
I don't think Bethesda or the Nexus is the problem. The problem is the society. As you can see everydays, there is ads with (half) naked photoshopped womans, but when a mother breastfeed her baby, it's illegal.
The society works with christian-jewish rules, where sexuality and womans are taboo.

(My english might be hard to read or understand, excuse me for that)

It's ok man, I can understand you just fine. And to a degree I must say I agree with you. There's a huge social influence when it comes to what's acceptable and what not. That being said, artists, writters, story designers, and overall, content creators in general, do have the ability to stretch these rules in their fictional works, and that is kind of what allows for cultural change and the exploration of new paradigmes and ideas.

While one could excuse Bethesda for making a PG13 type of world, I would say that it's their "responsability" (so to speak) to choose risking a small amount of financial gain in lieu of artistic integrity/ consistency. A good example of a developer who applies such integrity is CD Projekt Red, whose game series The Witcher, features a crude and realistic world, in which all sorts of terrible topics (including sexually charged ones) are explored in depth by the characters in the world making in turn a game that provieds with a far superior experience in regards to immersion, realism, and world building.

They took such a risk, and were rewarded handsomely in a monetary level, The Witcher now being one of the modern paradigmes on how to do "role playing right". And that's keeping in mind that their game is really not open for you to intenterpret your character with total freedom, which should make the game worst, but it doesn't.

Overall, I'd say that it's both the creators and the public's responsability to support artistic freedom and the added benefits it brings. Society can take centuries to evolve, but the world of the fictional should be free already.
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PostSubject: Re: On Adult and Explicit Worldbuilding   Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:30 pm

You weren't in the wrong. But just change the screenshot. I will agree with @"Garska" who worded quite nicely that these rules aren't necessarily a product of Nexus OR Bethesda. But of society itself.
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PostSubject: Re: On Adult and Explicit Worldbuilding   Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:45 pm

Nexus is okay with people uploading follower mods or playable characters that look as if they're 10 that have fucking gigantic boobs and put them to hotfiles, but they ban this. Society is fucked up!
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PostSubject: Re: On Adult and Explicit Worldbuilding   Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:41 pm

My point hasn't got anything to do with the Nexus really, I just talked about that because it prompted me to the chain of thought. The picture was removed and I really don't mind at all. This is more about the artistic integrity of post apocalyptic potrayals, and more specifically, about Bethesda's lack of compromise in that regard. TongueTril
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PostSubject: Re: On Adult and Explicit Worldbuilding   Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:40 pm

This is all political really. Meaning its above us and above logical thought process. You are right about the things you say but I don't think there is much we can do to change the whole world. So its best to act politically correct when possible and save yourself from the trouble.
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PostSubject: Re: On Adult and Explicit Worldbuilding   Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:35 pm

Really it is the Nexus and Bethesda's problem. They are submitting to offended SJWs because Bethesda wants more sales and Nexus wants more ad revenue from the users. The problem is, it won' t change their sales or ad revenue because SJWs aren't gamers. Those who cry they are offended are the same people who cry they are offended by a character's race or some trivial shit like that.

The point is, Bethesda and the Nexus are the problem because they are money-hungry and to get more money they will submit to whatever minority calls out to them, even if the minority doesn't even play the game.

Funny how Bethesda have ignored the majority of players who tell them to make their games longer, well written and more detailed but then pay attention to the offended SJWs that pollute not just the gaming communities but also everything else.

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Orth

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PostSubject: Re: On Adult and Explicit Worldbuilding   Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:59 pm

Corvo - I agree with you, but I think the issue is a bit more nuanced. Yes, these companies could perfectly make things more mature in order to improve the experience of their players/users , and that would involve a risk, a risk they're not willing to take because to them it's profit over honesty.

BUT, such a risk exists for two (maybe more) reasons:

a) The repressed, bored people with too much time on their hands who fill their day by whinning about pointless stuff cause they hate their lives. Also known as loud SJW's.

b) The majority of passive people who disagree with the former, but choose to "fall in line" in order to avoid being ostracised or any other discomfort.

If you ask me, group B is the major factor in shaping the general reality, if they stay silent and don't take any risks, the loud minority will always get what they want.

But yeah, mostly Bethesda is becoming more and more just another greedy company who puts profit and sales above artistic integrity, which is a shame.
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