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 Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?

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dantaefetticus

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PostSubject: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:41 pm

Hello everybody, as you all may know, Bethesda has announced the Creation Club. I believe everyone and their great grandmother saw the announcement, so I won't tell you what is about. I will, however, post the official FAQ on the Creation Club. This FAQ covers mostly all of the questions that are being asked right now. You can read to your own leisure and form your own opinion on it. STILL, take this FAQ with a grain of salt. We all know Bethesda did shady shit in the past.


https://creationclub.bethesda.net/en


EDIT:Here is the link to the video announcement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRkrascT_iM

Please, watch this if you haven't and read the FAQ.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:53 pm

No matter how Bethesda sugar coats it, it'll be bad. I can't really chat shit on being paid for mods, as I take commissions myself, but there's a fine line between someone wanting their own private mod through payment and a mod being created that'll have a price tag on every single one of them. They'll do what they do, but I'm glad its optional anyways, besides I wonder how this'll even work I mean there's mod leakers. So if we're all given a set amount of credits to start with everyone can get these club exclusive mods and share them amongst whoever lmao

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:32 pm

The great evil comes back again...... I don't really get Beth on this like we screamed to them that we don't want paid mods back in 2015. We already told them that it wouldn't work but they still insisted.
If they still go for this then they should expect paid mods to be shared like wildfire similar to GUN private mods as you can pretty much rip the mod files from the game unless the encrypt it or something. Supporting modders through monetization is still fine by me but forcing player's hand into buying them and if the mod was not the buyer's expectation or like use it for a day then it would be a total waste of money. There are many other ways of supporting modders by helping it spread by mouth or leave a certain thank you.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:18 pm

The modding community will get past this, and with the combined efforts of both the Fallout and TES fanbases this idea will never see the light of day. If it does, then Bethesda will have people take them less seriously and they will eventually become EA or Activision.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:10 pm

I think the presentation gave a bad impression of what they want to do, it was really messy and fastly done to be easily comprehensible (which should be).

I don't have a problem with modder getting money for their work for a lot of them they are doing a great work at bringing us what Bethesda will NEVER bring us, an unlimited way at having fun with a game.
When the whole steamworkshop bullshit happened there was multiple problem like no authentification of the author (anyone could sell any mod) and Bethesda and steam taking 75% of the cake. I don't want to give Bethesda that much money when they aren't responsible for the mod I'm getting.

Now with that new system I hope modders will get a big part of the money (75% would be good imo), Bethesda is doing some work so I'm okay with them getting a part.
There's a lot of ways this can go wrong the easier is the leaking of the mods (I'm against it and fuck people for even suggesting it), Bethesda being greedy and driving all the potential modders out, the price of each mod (remember that workshop mod are $5).

I've seen one mod during the presentation that I'm interested in and it's the Modular Backpack mod, other than that nothing.


@c a e k You have all the right to shit chat about paid mod, you taking commission doesn't make your opinion wrong, you are yourself and people are willing to commission you to get the content they want, you are not putting it behind a paywall.

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Last edited by darkjak94 on Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:27 pm

This whole "creation club" thing isn't nearly as bad as some people want it to be so they can be outraged. The ENTIRE thing is optional and will be vetted and have applications. This is more like 3rd party dlc rather than paid mods. A lot of the compatability issues most mods have will be erased because bethesda is helping with the coding and implementation. Bethesda even states that mods won't be paid and that this is only for Brand New content(nothing already made is allowed), which erases the issue that steam caused by not vetting anybody and we had the whole mod theft and resale fiasco. This is all just dumb outcry about something that affects 0 people. Just my 2 cents though.
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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:59 pm

This is my opinion on the matter. I am in a neutral stance. We haven't seen the Creation Club in action yet. We don't know if they're gonna stay true to their word with the answers they gave on the FAQ. I say we should wait until it comes out and see it in action. Another thing, the way they explained it during the presentation was very poor. They should've known the backlash they would've gotten and made it an important goal to explain it to full and proper detail so they could clear up any misconceptions. Half of the youtubers talking about this have only seen the announcement and haven't read the FAQ. I know this because I have seen people in the comments put links to the FAQ since not a lot of people read it. Now, they did say in the FAQ that you will need credits to get these "official content addons". That sounds suspicious to me already. How do we acquire the credits? Do we get them from playing the game? Or do we pay real life currency for them? The latter option seems like the more plausible thing Bethesda would go for. Now, they did say that the modders who want to be apart of the Creation Club will be paid for their contributions. I have one question though, how MUCH are they gonna get? Is this going to be like last time with Steam Workshop where Bethesda and Steam got 75% of the money paid and the mod author got like only 30%? Or is the mod author gonna get a good chunk or all of the money? I will be happy if mod authors do get paid for their contributions, but I don't want it where they would only get a laughable percentage for what they did.

They did bring up the fact that modders who don't want to be apart of this won't be forced to. That is a good thing. They also said that they will not accept any work that was already made. That mean mods from other sites(Nexus, GUN, Loverslab, etc.) will not be accepted. They want to create official work that is made by them and the mod author they're working with. They want to create professional content. This will weed out all of the memers and content thieves and leave out the people that want to actually work with them.

We will just have to wait for more details and the eventual release of this system. Before further notice, I will stay neutral to the matter.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:06 pm

Meh... paid extra content is nothing new and it's not like Bethesda haven't scabbed coins off of fans before. You only have to look at some of the laughable things they've charged fans for.

What I'd really like to know is what percentage a creator would get for their work. I have no issue with modders being paid for what they do, if they so choose. The problem would only exist on a legal level if they were taking money for adapting programs the didn't own the rights to, which this creation club works around by giving them official  allowance to do so. If a creator chooses to do so, it's their choice, and as someone whose ability with modding teeters somewhere around knowing how to edit things a tiny bit, I have no right to say what people should or shouldn't do. It's a skill that takes a long time to master and using that to earn money is by no means wrong if they choose to do so. As I said though, I'd be more interested to know what payment Bethesda is giving modders in return for their work.

These kind of things always raise my curiosity as it comes across as trying to exploit a portion of your fanbase in return for a profit. It seems to be oriented at working with the community as well. Whether that means offering direct support to creators and working with them on projects is something that could prove interesting, though I find it unlikely. It seems more spin to me.

The FAQ is pretty thin, and I can't completely tell what a Creator really is. It mentions payments starting "as soon as their proposal is accepted" but does that mean they are on some constant employ by Bethesda? During this period, are they obliged to develop for Bethesda directly? What exactly are career milestones?

Again, I have nothing against modders making money from this. I'd just like to know that the modders are actually being paid fairly. This on the surface is info light and makes no mention of any obligations to Bethesda that come with it. Oerhaps that comes after the application process and there is some sort of deal struck, perhaps dependant on the skills/popularity of previous works of said creator. I do agree that this is being blown out of proportion somewhat as it is entirely dependant on personal choice, no one is being forced to apply. But given past attempts at this sort of thing, you can't really blame people for being hesitant.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:50 am

From what I understand (or at least what I read somewhere) It will not be Modders in a general term (as in nexus and such) but Bethesda Approved modders/employees. Which is just another way for them to mooch money of the players.
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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:14 am

Another downside to paid mods is that they'll have to be 100% non associated to other gaming franchises since Bethesda will have a hand in it. And lets admit it, a majority of the mods we play are from other franchises - COD weapon packs, Halo, DC and marvel armor packs, Borderlands, the list goes on and on. And yeah, there's talented modders who don't usually do this but still, we don't know to what extent they'll be willing to mod for bethesda. Honestly I'm just worried that if we go with the flow with bethesda it'll lead them to attempting to shutting down nexus and vgu in a ridiculous manner. Because let's be honest, we all know bethesda is doing this for themselves, if they really cared about the community they wouldn't try to bring this cancer back with a tagline like "it's not paid mods" when it obviously is using an in game currency you have to buy. Like come on lol
But who knows maybe I'm wrong, maybe this'll be good for modders, and I sincerely hope so, but only time will tell.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:45 am

NO DONT BELIVE THEM LIES LIES LIES!@@@@@!!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:25 am

I mentioned this in the other thread but this whole thing is a legal clusterfuck that seriously limits their offer:
- You can only use your own custom created content for creating a mod, since there's a whole debacle about what modder's resources you'd be able to use (or even would be allowed to use in payed mods)
- How the money rewarding will go, if mod uses parts of another mod & how the split will be calculated between modders
- Mods that rely on another mods (you know, that small mod called Script Extender, without which most of Skyrim's mods wouldn't work. Or ENB presets). How ok is it to put a mod on sale that needs third party content to even work.
- Compability between various mods (you don't get this with official DLCs that are desgined to work together)
- Mods that are created with software that allows creation of custom content only for non-commercial purposes (and licenses for that stuff ain't cheap)
- Look how many armors on Nexus (and also here) aren't for both genders - How would that be handled, since a paid mod shouldn't be missing content just because you want to play a different gender
– No content from any existing IP that isn't Bethesda's - no more Star Wars, Warhammer, etc armor or weapons even if it's created from scratch since it's also protected by their respective IPs

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:39 am

@superpele As far as content from different IP, the creation club isn't going to stop that, or is even attempting to put an end to it. They're not saying, Creation Club is here and that's what you have to use. It's a choice, the only thing is Modders making content from other games won't be able to participate in the Creation cCub.

@lyca5259
I don't think Nexus or GUN will be targeted because quite frankly the backlash would be huge and result in a huge PR nightmare. There are tens of thousands, if not more, using the Nexus site. That's a huge fan base to have going after your company after you shit on them.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:15 pm

@Evmeister I meant it more as the CClub will be much poorer than regular Nexus, which provides a lot more diverse content for free. And I have no doubt that they'll try to change it, since Nexus is a direct competitor to them.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:01 pm

https://youtu.be/FGFQCO310m4?t=155 Smile

roared says it all, time for the Mod War to come back Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:23 pm

I think the issue is people will be paying for these mods, so they will be held to a higher standard-There are mods that can crash your game, and Bethesda will be forced to deal with that. But Bethesda can barely test and quality assure their own games let alone a large influx of mods, which then opens up a whole can of worms on legal issues.

For example the Computer Misuse Act 1990 in my country(UK)states somebody has broken the law "if the act causes, or creates a significant risk of, serious damage of a material kind; and the person intends by doing the act to cause serious damage of a material kind or is reckless as to whether such damage is caused."

Now it would take OJ Simpsons legal team to successfully argue that point, but its an unaddressed issue. Another thing thats unaddressed is copyright material, and what happens in the case of distributing somebody else's work? Or a mod that uses content from other authors? At GUNetwork were aware that mod pirates exist, but either bethesda does not, or doesn't care. And thats the core of it, the lack of communication with the community, and that will be their downfall again and again.


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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:52 pm

superpele wrote:
@Evmeister I meant it more as the CClub will be much poorer than regular Nexus, which provides a lot more diverse content for free. And I have no doubt that they'll try to change it, since Nexus is a direct competitor to them.

Smaller quantity perhaps, though it may be higher quality IF Bethesda are aiming this particularly at professional level content creators (they mention professional artists as well as modders) they may be able to turn out some high quality content that is worth paying for every now and then. However, there are already a lot of professional quality mods out there already, and a lot of the higher echelon modders seem to be more in favour of remaining independant so it makes me wonder how succesfull it will be at creating a cohesive team from which to develop. Will creators produce content independant of one another for example? Will they work together on projects? Are projects set by the modders or by Bethesda? It seems like once again this Creation Club still has a great many unanswered questions.

It's clear Bethesda are aiming more toward DLC (be that quest, or "extra content") quality, so there not going to be picking up people who make retextures, memes, or simple, pretty female companions which are, reallistically, the majority of content on the Nexus. Then it comes down to a lot more legal shit. For instance, what about mods that use existing assets from other modders? Most content creators share under the impression that it's free for all and those resources can prove vital particularly in building new worldspaces. How can massive mods like the Frontier or Project Brazil ever be achieved by Creation Club when they require so much cooperation from a community? Using creation club assets in another creation club mod would also present an issue.

I dunno, it seems to me like a lot of the mods I've enjoyed over the years have benefitted vastly from that level of communication and willingness to share assets freely, so that would probably present the biggest issue as far as creating new, large scale content. It comes back to why you really can't monotize mods in this way. Yeah, there is a large presence on the internet, but very few of the larger, high quality mods are created entirely independantly, and even if you're working with Bethesda, I find it hard to believe they will devote time to help with fan projects, especially considering the fact that they are likely gearing up for new projects soon.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:32 pm

If I belived Bethesda I would be excited, the problem is I don't. First of all, their presentation video featured the kind of content we already have in spades, with more variety, better qualty and for free.

If they intend for the CC to actually be successfull to a degree they need to lose money at the beginning, or this ain't gonna fly.

What do I mean by that? Well, what FO4 needs more than anything is actual content, quests, roleplaying options, etc. The kinds of things that individual modders and even teams have a hard time developing due to the inherent costs of professional voice acting, modeling, and all that jazz.

I feel that most mod users are not gonna be tempted by a backpack and a gauss rifle. They'll pay for a good, world building quest, for a weapon pack with like 40 high quality weapons, etc. I would at least, but not for individual, small scale mods that I can get for free anyway.

And knowing Bethesda I seriously doubt they'll be funding that kind of work. More likely they'll approve what requires the least amount of effort and bug testing on their part, so they can milk it quickly and safely.

Also, did anyone else laugh when they heard that Bethesda would do quality control? Hahahaha what a good joke, Bethesda fixing bugs, yeah right.
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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:50 pm

Evmeister wrote:
@lyca5259
I don't think Nexus or GUN will be targeted because quite frankly the backlash would be huge and result in a huge PR nightmare. There are tens of thousands, if not more, using the Nexus site. That's a huge fan base to have going after your company after you shit on them.

That's the scary thing though, from a business standpoint we don't really matter. For the hardcore fallout/elder scrolls gamer modding is a huge thing. And by hardcore I mean knows the ins and outs - to a degree - about modding the games and the modding community. But alot of people aren't hardcore like that, I definitely end up seeing alot of people asking simple questions on how to install mods to this day.
So if Bethesda's little project is successful, it will be aimed at the average consumer that doesn't have time to mod, to get a high powered pc to run the mods.
The average consumer has an xbox and a ps4. They play fallout or elder scrolls and see they can have a desert eagle or a beam katana for a measly 1.50 in the psn or xbox store? Damn right they're gonna buy it. And while the average consumer buys while the hardcore modders don't, it won't matter, because we're not the ones bringing in the money for them.
Sucks but that's how it is on the business side of things.
But this is only one outcome, so we'll see how everything will play out.

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PostSubject: Re: Creation Club FAQ: Believe Them Or Not?   Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:56 pm

@Corvo I agree with corvo, Bethesda'll either stop this madness when the backlash happens, or they'll become a joke, here's hoping we can stop this from happening again... Sad

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