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 Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?

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Alixen



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PostSubject: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:26 pm

I have always had a weakness for the Enclave, as while they may have extreme views, they are interesting precisely because of that. And having a high level of technology, actual production capabilities, Sgt Dornan, and they aren't all quite so extreme as some of their (dead) leaders have been. We have the lab tech and female soldier in FO2 who are just two people on an military base. We have Arcade, who struggles with his ancestry. The old guard of New Vegas, who represent several different world and political views. Even Autumn, while evil and an asshole, was more lawful evil and actually didn't agree with wiping out the wastelanders.

I think its fun to play as one of these very extreme, but very powerful characters.

The games of course don't outright support it, but with a little creativity (and later mods) its not impossible.

Fallout 1 it actually is pretty near to impossible due to them not even being thought up. With a bit of screenshot editing I suppose you could pretend that the Vault Dweller is 'picked' to look into the Super Mutant army an an unobtrusive spy (or at least less obvious than the Enclave.) However, this isn't exactly ideal.

Fallout 2 it becomes a little easier, even if it isn't until towards the end. Introduced to them in New Reno, you don't have to interrupt the arms deal. And it might be possible to sympathize or at least be awed by the group at Navarro. The Oil Rig and the President of course have to go, especially after we find out the leaderships plan, but that does nothing to Navarro and the other bases out there that are mentioned in FO2. In lore, Navarro lasts quite a long time before the NCR attacks. In the meantime, stomping around the Wasteland in EPA and fighting for the Enclave is fun.

But, FO3 is where I really start to enjoy it. Even without the mods (Eagle has Landed, and a few others, that actually let you start or join as Enclave properly) you can arguably be recruited by Eden. Using Enclave Commander, and other such mods, you can rather effectively play a turncoat against the Brotherhood, and blow them up, while leaving Adam's intact for reclaiming. I even turned the lab under the lighthouse in PA into a small Enclave outpost after I liberated it. It's out of the way and has little in the way of population outside smugglers and tribals, and thus is unlikely to ever be discovered by potential enemies.

New Vegas is the best though, due to the blank slate (aside from being a Courier for at least 4 years) of the character. I like to use the mod that turns the small shack between Goodsprings and the Deathclaws into an Enclave safehouse, and Enclave Commander (Using FO3 edition armor) to handle bigger problems. Outside that, though, I pursue the Wildcard ending as an Officer of the Enclave. Eventually, supported by an army of Securitron MK2, the Enclave can make New Vegas its own with little to no resistance.

Anyone occasionally do something like this?
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daftpeter



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:43 pm

Sometimes I did wish to play as Enclave.
Like you said, they are very interesting characters and I would love to explore more of them.
Maybe in the next fallout game they will play another big role, unlike New Vegas, which was kind of a disappointment to me because they were barely there but I understand they didn't fit in with the rest of the story.
I did have my Enclave moments with the help of some mods and had quite a bit of fun, I definitely want more Enclave in my life.

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Tesvixen



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:58 pm

I'd love to see a Fallout game in which you could choose your beginning, like in Dragon Age: Origins. A vault dweller, a BOS member, or a member of the Enclave for example(s).
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ArgusMercenary



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:11 pm

Honestly I prefer the Enclave compared to the BoS. At least they're not as fanatical as the BoS is, and it seems that the Enclave was more tolerant towards members with different ideas, as evidenced by the wide range of beliefs that the Remnants possessed, as well as with Autumn not agreeing with the president.

On the other hand the BoS marginalizes people with different ideas about how they should do things, that or they have them killed, such as it happens with Veronica.

FO3 failed in that aspect, they made both the Supermutants and the Enclave as the big bad people who are evil for the sake of it, when they should have given them motives for what they were doing. As well as giving the player the option to choose who to side with. I never much liked having to side with the BoS, and I don't care if FO3's BoS is different. They still reek of fanaticism, whether its Lyons and his group, or the Outcasts.
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Alixen



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:22 pm

Indeed. Sadly, it seems in Fallout they aren't so keen to let you play as the bad guys. In FO3 the height of it is being a prat to the Brotherhood and being an assassin or nutjob, and in New Vegas the Legion got the short end of the stick in development, and thus look even worse than they were supposed to.
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Chaosyn



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:35 pm

The BoS calls you Outsider,treats you like a slave,and only gives you a miniscule amount of respect AFTER you do their dirty work. Plus they want to keep helpful tech AWAY from people.

The Enclave hears of the things you do,treats you with respect (even right before they try to kill you),ASKS,not demands,you to help them...I mean in FO3 the Enclave was trying to bring back the USA....They went about it the wrong way....but at least they DID SOMETHING....The BoS just hoarded tech and branded everyone outside their walls as lesser beings.
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daftpeter



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:38 pm

Enclave is love, Enclave is life.

I never thought about it but yeah, the BoS aren't as nice as I thought they were.
Now I want to play as Enclave more then ever.

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Alixen



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:04 pm

To be fair, outside select officers, techs and the grunts, the Enclave is pretty much as close what we consider as pure evil as you'll get. They are behind the Vault-Tech and the Vault experiments, testing different scenarios on how people react in confined living, so they have data for a plan to colonize other un-ruined worlds. They considered anyone born out in the wasteland as mutants and less than human, and generally consider purging them a requirement to rebuild humanity.

At least the BoS does have some good people, like Elder Lyons, Veronica, and Maxson in the original game. Plus at least they only want to control technology, rather than exterminate everyone for being subhuman. Sure, they are aggressive and insular (and the Mojave chapter at least aer little more than tech-raiders at this point) but originally they were somewhat noble. In FO1 they are the only group willing and able to resist the Master and his super-mutants. In FO2 they don't have the might to do anything major, but are at least wiling to help against the Enclave.

Still, none of this takes away from the interest of the Enclave. No reason we have to demonize the group that is good-to-neutral (depending on the time and faction) to like the evil faction. After all, I can still enjoy the Empire in Star Wars and still recognize they are dicks.

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ArgusMercenary



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:22 pm

Sure, the Enclave isn't all that pretty either, but then again no faction is, not the Legion, not even the NCR has a clean record and the NCR's as close as you get to "good". The good does not take away the bad, but neither does the bad take away the good.

The Enclave got pounded though, it remains to be seen what they will do in the future. The BoS on the other hand, had gone through the same but refuses to change, and anyone who doesn't fall in line with their standards is an enemy. Which is what started the war with the NCR in the first place.

Maybe the BoS is not as extreme, but in the hands of a madman like Elijah it could be, and I'm sure he's not he only one who's got a few screws loose in that faction.
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Ailestriker



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:22 pm

I like the Enclave as well they their ideals are extreme, but they are a fragment of those who wanted to grasp onto the last sliver of pre-war america. They want to rebuild it anew, but with their own vision.

The enclave potentially still exists, they could be operating on the down low in the states around Illinois and mainly they could be in Canada or heck even Alaska. They could have isolated themselves like the BOS for now, biding time, and seeing the next chance to recover lost time.

I wouldn't mind another Enclave faction that isn't dedicated to restoring humanity as the head of the food chain, but is focused on rebuilding and uniting the United States. They are there as a force for good, one who shares knowledge instead of hording it. An Enclave that learned from their past, and evolved their ways to find a successful path.
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noodles1976



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:37 pm

I agree with some of the posters that 'moral ambiguity' was needed to flesh out the various factions...and that presenting the Enclave as straight up evil was a mistake. If they had been presented in FO3 as a choice instead of an obstacle, I think I would view them more favorably. Unfortunately, the Enclave was forever ruined for me as a player at the end of the Waters of Life quest (I think that was the name if it) when Col. Autumn shot the scientist lady in a strong-arm move to take over the purifier. That whole sequence of events just seemed forced to me. Dad commits suicide by leaking the radiation in the chamber (why? because plot said so...makes NO SENSE to me) and from that point on, Enclave = evil / BoS = good, because the game forces the player to that conclusion. If there was a choice there, to surrender the purifier to the Enclave or to join the BoS, with the good and bad sides of both being explored through gameplay from that point on, it would have been perfect. You discover the elitist nature of the BoS or the genocidal plans of the Enclave...and choose to stay with that faction, oppose them, or go rogue and fight them both, like you could do with the factions in NV.

As far as the political/social views of the Enclave? Yeah, mass murder for any reason is unacceptable. Let's kill everybody who isn't us, so we can have an idyllic world of our making. I'm not going to make the obvious historical reference here...fascists and their nationalist agendas are not cool.

So, no...I don't really care for the Enclave as presented in the Fallout series, nor do I use mods to allow me to join their ranks.

BTW, great thread Alexin! I really enjoy these kinds of discussions. Whether you agree with my POV or not, + 1 for an interesting topic.

Cheers,

N~dles

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EZ323



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:05 am

I would enjoy playing as them or being able to side with them. They may do bad things but they're doing what they think is right and trying to restore a system that worked(for a while). Because in the wastes they are trying to help in their own way. In some idealogies i can sort of agree with them. Hell, in F3 , Col. Autmunm was trying to help out and directly disobeyed eden because he KNEW tht eden was wrong. So yeah i think it would be swell to be able to play for the enclave

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nick85



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:28 am

I don't play as the enclave or join their factions but I do like there armor its badass I kill them for their armor.
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pingasmonkey



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:58 am

I've always favored the Enclave more, considering their military is much more organized than BoS.
Like Chaosyn pointed out, the Enclave did give their attempt to resurrect America even though it went horrible. BoS don't seem to do much to help and they treat anyone who is not part of their ranks like garbage.

There's a mod by Gribbleshnibit8 on the Nexus called Roleplayers Alternative Start Fallout New Vegas that allows you to start the game as a member of multiple factions, including Enclave. It would be so cool if Bethesda would implement this in future Fallout games.
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John Henry Eden



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:39 pm

Here is a nice mod. It alow you to join the enclave in main quest, ist WIP and the last update was 2011 but it´s playable, have some probs but it works. Kill BoS, retake the Citadel, destroy the FEV.
And a lot of other things.

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/12937/?
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bft90679



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:28 pm

Seriously, when FONV was released, I was quite disappointed there were only Arcade's companion quest was related to Enclave. Also, BOS has a secret hideout as their fully functional chapter, but Enclave only have few old retired soldiers and a small refueling station.

And what NCR's doings are nothing more like Enclave's deeds, keep rolling people and taking their lands. Though Enclave did kidnap people for cruel experiments, but NCR kept sending young troopers without standard issue and proper training strait into the killing field like camp forlorn hope, isn't this just the same thing? Most of the soldiers from NCR are just conscripted and most of them don't even have basic training and decent standard issues(like ex- NCR staff sergeant arms merchant at 188 trading post said "most of the young soldiers don't even have body armor").

Enclave is a symbol of power and terror, no argue with that. Even BOS chose to stay low in FO2. But at least Enclave knew what they were doing and not all of the people in Enclave were bad guys. Some people in Enclave they were really fighting for the goodness and trying to make things civilized. Also, Enclave have advanced equipments and cutting edge R&D department and well trained troopers, with of all these superiority they can set up a stronghold very hard to breach; a city, or a nation with firm controlled territory if they want.

I really hope factions system will still remain in FO4 and add Enclave as a major faction, even if the government is dictating. Just give us a set of power armor and some advanced heavy fire powers, who cares politics? TongueTril


Last edited by bft90679 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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chanze555



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:57 pm

I love to pretend that I'm part of the enclave. I like invading areas and turning them into enclave bases with the commander mod. Hopefully in fallout 4 there will be more interactions with them.

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TheHulksCousin



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:52 pm

The Enclave always intrigued me. Maybe it was the ideals of the fallen executive branch of the united states gov. that caused their ideology to become so xenophobic? I mean, genetic mutation is a perfectly normal process inside the life cycle. Perhaps the original leaders were afraid that the irradiated creatures of the world would somehow taint the "pure" bloodline of the average American? Who knows.

Anyway, every once in a while, I'll take out an old save-game of mine where I play as a ghoulified Enclave shock-trooper, and that's why the enclave hate me and always fire upon me.

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bft90679



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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:47 pm

@TheHulksCousin wrote:
The Enclave always intrigued me. Maybe it was the ideals of the fallen executive branch of the united states gov. that caused their ideology to become so xenophobic? I mean, genetic mutation is a perfectly normal process inside the life cycle. Perhaps the original leaders were afraid that the irradiated creatures of the world would somehow taint the "pure" bloodline of the average American? Who knows.

Anyway, every once in a while, I'll take out an old save-game of mine where I play as a ghoulified Enclave shock-trooper, and that's why the enclave hate me and always fire upon me.
Well, you know what they always(games or reality) "people are afraid of changes."
Change requires adaptation, and adaptation needs physical, mental or both re-arrangements.
To most people, they're not actually afraid of changes, the real thing they fear are the results after the changes. It's a future of uncertainty.

But, eventually they will have to accept this reality, or they will just like west coast BOS and the Outcasts in east coast - more and more people dying and their days are numbered.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone else enjoy playing as the Enclave?   Today at 6:52 pm

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