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 Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*

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MrEggs0925

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PostSubject: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:45 pm

Big Hello Smiley This is my first time creating a discussion so please go easy on me. Also please note that I am not by any means a "Lore Expert" and just know from what I have experienced in game and from I have read on the Game wikis.

Personally I support most of the things the Enclave did at least on the East Coast as they were for the most part trying to restore order and recreate the United States. Colonel Augustus Autumn seemed to have everything planned out and under control with him under command of the Enclave's human contingent and even having the self destruct codes for President Eden (ZAX AI) if he was to get to out of control. Though they do take the purifier from you they did it to win control over the people and see it as negatively effecting the life's of a few for the greater good of the country.

Something I disagree with though is how they treat ghouls as it is unfair and pre war ghouls could hold information that had been lost during the war like scientific information, architecture, and so many other things lost from the war. I can see why the Enclave does not like super mutants as on the West Coast they had problems with them and even had a war with them.

I think that in almost every fallout game they make the Enclave look like the bad guys when in reality they are not actually that bad and are just trying to for the most part recreate the United States. Also I know I most likely missed somethings that really make the Enclave look bad at least on the East Coast so if you know of them please share them.

Though this is just my opinion what do you guys think about the Enclave (East Coast) and their attempt to rebuild America?
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:04 pm

Yeah bethesda really seemed to want to present the east coast enclave as more neutral especially with President Eden. Like that one guy in Megaton whose name I can't remember I wanted the Enclave to be the good guys and be the ones to restore the wasteland to that picturesque 50's golden age of America. I never went along with the whole contaminate the water supply thing especially since the pc in fallout 3 is a wastelander himself, but as far as genocides go it was on the tamer side. Even though they are usually up to something pretty dastardly it is kind of disturbing and bleak to imagine the wasteland without a U.S. gov remnant. In fallout 3 there's no denying they are trying to do what they think is best for America and I can admire that.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:32 pm

@"MrEggs0925" you mean the remnants ov the remnants? after the bone crushing loss in fallout 3 id say most settled down into quiet lifes or realized they were hurting more then helping the people and went on a quest ov redemption because lets be honest their forefathers were the people that pushed the button and ran off to a oil rig to live the high life as the world burned dont get me wrong if they had better leadership they might have turned into something akin to the BOS but nope they kept the old mindset ov what destroyed the post war world i think the Enclaves power armor is epic along with their weapons and i cant leave out frank horrigan but sure we most likely will see them return either from another base or space it's self in the future thanks for the post it was very cool to talk about the enclave they are something hopefully in the future we are able to join.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:34 am

I do agree with you they try to make the Enclave into something like 1 dimensional bad guys, when in reality they're as 3 dimensional and as full of depth as any other faction in Fallout. The Brotherhood and other factions also bring about atrocities, atrocities are not just an Enclave thing.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:44 pm

@"Heracles" Yeah I agree with you. The Enclave in FO3 were a lot more stable then they where on the West Coast. Though they were doing some secretive stuff like experimenting on FEV and super mutants as you can see them in Cryo/stasis inside of these tubes. They also try to give you a modified FEV strain though that was mostly if not entirely Edens plan that Autumn didn't want to follow. I also did not infect the water supply as I would of died also from being contaminated in the Wastes.

@"shocktrooper666" I meant the remnants of the Enclave that left for Raven Rock on the East Coast after their Oil Rig and Command was destroyed. So yeah I guess in a way the Remnants of the Remnants of a pre war Government. Yes the U.S. took part in the Nuclear exchange but it was not confirmed that it was the U.S. who launched first. I would think that it would be China as they were losing the War badly after the deployment of Powered Armored Units (T51 -T60). Lastly yes the Enclaves power armor and weapons are no doubt bad ass and no doubt the best gear in almost any Fallout game at least for Power Armor/ Energy Weapons.

@"MotionlessGhost" Yeah from what I've seen the Brotherhood is in some ways just as "bad" as the Enclave. They both hate and despise about all mutants and want to kill them off. Especially in Fallout 4 they seem to have gone back to their old ways and are hoarding technology just to make themselves bigger. This does seem like a somewhat noble goal though also something for their own gain just to make them more powerful by any means necessary.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:03 pm

@MotionlessGhost yes true there are extremists in everything when it comes to the BOS you have to bring up witch chapter you are referencing to as there are a lot ov splinter chapters as for the Enclave its normally been the same ideal we are the nations sole survivors ov pure blood humans {well as pure as inbreeding gets after 200 years} and we see everything as lesser beings like i said in my last post if they had better leadership they might have turned into something akin to the BOS but nope they kept the old mindset ov their forefathers that destroyed the post war world i think the Enclave has a ton ov potential then just being a "hey thats the baddie kill them" stance
@MrEggs0925 as for whom started the great war that is totally up in the air and opinion because no game has seen fit to explore more on the subject for all we know vault tec started it all but thats not the topic ov this subject and like i stated to Ghost you have to say witch chapter ov the BOS you are talking about because unlike the Enclave they are several chapters across the US that hold different views then the first west coast BOS witch yes that mindset is not a good long term plan as for the east coast BOS what we seen in fallout 4 was maxton trying to mix the ideals ov the west BOS with Lyons ideals witch is noble to unite them but is very flawed.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:51 pm

@shocktrooper666 When I was talking about who possibly started the war I was not confirming and just making a speculation based on facts. For the BOS I was talking about Lyons/Maxsons BOS chapter and how they hate ghouls and mutants and how they want to kill them. Though this hate has grown from dislike to wanting to kill them all. As seen in FO3 BOS soldiers were more tolerant to ghouls but if they were for example to get shot in the crossfire they wouldn't really care. But in FO4 Maxsons chapter hates ghouls and wants them to be all killed. Danse is an example of this and will make smug remarks towards Hancock, Curie (Synth), and Strong due to them being either a Synth or a ghoul. Though yes I will admit I made a mistake not addressing which chapter I was talking about.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:04 am

I'd like them a lot more if we were actually allowed to side with them.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:04 pm

@Visible Earth wrote:
I'd like them a lot more if we were actually allowed to side with them.

You can. You can end the game by poisoning the wasteland with FEV and blowing up the Citadel in Broken Steel.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:39 pm

@Visible Earth Yes that would of been pretty cool to side with the Enclave and get access to their armors & weapons and also possibly access to their Vertibirds. Maybe even being able to talk strategy with Colonel Autumn about the final stand battle for the Purifier and how they could of stopped them like by destroying the Arlington Bridge or to tell vertibird gunners to focus on Liberty Primes Legs to destroy them and render Liberty Prime almost if not completely useless. Im getting way off topic but yeah I would of really enjoyed siding with the Enclave.


@Corvo I think by side with them he meant you could join them and fight with them and for them. Really you are siding with a ZAX AI Computer and its bots that are destroyed as soon as you leave the bunker or destroyed by Liberty Prime during the Two weeks later cinematic before you wake up in the Citadel Medical center. Also to add to this the human contingent of the Enclave followed Colonel Autumn over President Eden as seen when the human Enclave members abandoned the comfort of Raven Rock to follow Autumn for the Purifier.

Also during Broke Steel you don't really side with the Enclave because to get to the Mobile Crawler in the first place you pretty much had to kill the majority of them. On top of that you destroy Squad Sigma, Remove their Command Structure, Remove their Communications, and no matter what option you picked destroy the Mobile Crawler.

So I wouldn't call that siding with the Enclave as sure you killed off the Capitals BOS Chapter but also pretty much destroyed the majority of the Enclave in the process.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:06 pm

There should be a standalone mod just to play as a member of Enclave like the way modders did with Fallout 1.5: Resurrection. It's a whole new story for Fallout 2 if someone is not familiar with that mod.

Spoiler:
 

It's cool that you can "side" with Enclave in Fallout 3, but it does not really have any impact in the game whatsoever or do anything differently. You just destroy the Citadel and that's it.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:42 am

@Corvo wrote:
@Visible Earth wrote:
I'd like them a lot more if we were actually allowed to side with them.

You can. You can end the game by poisoning the wasteland with FEV and blowing up the Citadel in Broken Steel.

That's not siding with the Enclave. That's just dumb psychopathic choices for shits and giggles. The Lone Wanderer would be poisoned by the infected water. It makes zero sense for them to do that other than "lol I'm evil and crazy!" And you still have to kill all the Enclave in Broken Steel, so again, it's just senseless to blow up the Brotherhood at that point (unless, again, if you're CRAAAAZY!)

EDIT: Joining the Enclave would've been, after meeting Autumn saying, "Oh, actually yeah, the Brotherhood led by Captain Ahab are idiots who don't know what they're doing, and my father was a dumb psychopath who cared more about destroying his life's work than working together with someone else. I'll totally work with you." Then you get to do missions destroying the Brotherhood of Steel and Super Mutants and saving the wasteland properly.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:09 pm

@c4in Their are some mods for FO3 that allow you to join the Enclave. But I think they have all been abandoned sadly.

@Visible Earth This was exactly what I was saying. You cant really side with the Enclave and only with a ZAX AI which self destructs or gets destroyed by Liberty Prime. Also when you blow up The Citadel you really kill off everyone and not join a side.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:16 pm

As everyone has said, the Encalve is a really interesting and deep faction. It would have been nice to actually join them in FO3, others than just "put this in the water" type of deal. I would like to see them again in future East Coast Fallouts, but not just Remnants. It would be cool if they were like a major faction with a morally gray ideology, or maybe an 'ends justify the means' ideology. They won't be the typical bad guys who want to rule the world akin to FO2 or FO3, or a fun cameo like in FNV.

P.S. Forgot to mention a video I watched about how the Enclave may not actually be the bad guys in FO3.

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:11 am

@Y0ungRe13el Very cool video taking a sort of in depth look at what the Enclave really was doing and how they thought that was the best course of action for the United States. At least Colonel Autumn was. Though to see the Enclave in another Fallout game would make no sense unless it was before Fallout 3. Though if considered lore they would still die out no matter what as events would lead to FO3 and then well they got 360 noscope rekt. Also since in FO3 and its DLCs the Enclave is almost if not completely destroyed with only a handful of troops remaining. Also if there were another group of Enclave that landed with the Vertibirds somewhere else it would make no sense as they regrouped in the Capital Wasteland due to it housing Raven Rock Bunker. It is a shame that the writers pretty much destroyed this option and made the Enclave look like the bad guys. To summarize this if they brought back the Enclave in the next game, DLC, etc... it would be like how in FO4 you find X-01 Power Armor suits in small ditches beside roads. It just wouldn't make any sense.


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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:38 am

What annoys me is that Fallout 3 doesn't actually make much of a case for the Enclave being "evil". Hence why we get videos like "Re-thinking the Enclave in Fallout 3". Their goals aren't made clear and they really don't commit all that many heinous crimes. They don't kill your father, he pointlessly floods the chamber with radiation himself, destroying his life's work in the process, without any real given reason. Because he thinks the Enclave are dictators? Maybe. But in all honesty I'd take assholes running the show over literally NO ONE AT ALL. Everyone seems to act like they have a good thing going in the capital wasteland, despite the fact that there's zero infrastructure, zero security, with everyone being murdered by super mutants and insane raiders. I'll take the asshole Enclave, please.

Even the girl Autumn shoots at the purifier with your father turns out to still be alive, actually working as a spy for the Enclave. If anything you murder her when you assault the mobile base crawler. It really just seems like Autumn's goal is to restart the purifier and bring order to the wasteland. It was only Eden who wanted to poison the water supply and follow through with Richardson's plans. And Eden has no real power, he's just a propaganda figurehead. So the only real dangerous "bad guy" in the game is you, the player, as you're the only one stupid enough, or insane enough, to act as his conspiring agent.

It all just feels like wasted potential. They just become another group of enemies to shoot. It would've been more interesting if it was the Brotherhood of Steel who initiated hostilities, as they have their orders to destroy any Enclave personnel that they come across after Fallout 2. Then you choose whether to side with the Enclave or Brotherhood of Steel (or maybe even, neither). But instead you're just forced to fight the Enclave for no reason whatsoever.

Sorry. Mini-rant over. The plot of Fallout 3 annoys me TongueTril

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:25 pm

@Visible Earth Yeah I understand and agree with what your saying completely as when your father claims to want to help people as soon as someone better suited for the job shows up he decided to flood the chamber with radiation. The little show Autumn put on was just an intimidation tactic to ensure compliance. The writers also didn't make the Enclaves goals very clear and expand on something that really could of been so much better with just a little more effort. I've also said this in my posts just like you did that President Eden was just a sort of puppet leader with Autumn pretty much running the show.

Shame that your forced to go to "war" with the Enclave when you could of actually made something for the wasteland. You could of brought back some sort of civilization to the wastes but instead you get the BOS and there incompetent members to run water caravans. Just to show how much of a joke their operations is there is a quest to investigate corruption with the Aqua Cura dude and also a quest to investigate organized robbery of water caravans. The Rivet City security girl who asks you to investigate even says shes down to her most inexperienced men showing just how much of a joke and total failure this whole operations is.

Whats even better is that the people you choose to help end up becoming fascists who take what they want and help nobody but their own. The Capital Wasteland as I would imagine is still an unorganized wasteland similar to that of FO3. Though Deacon says that the purifier still operational due to him claiming you can drink the water there.

My last point is that the Institute who has lost faith with the topside world is kind of right with all forms of actual government gone who would you have faith in? The Brotherhood (Capital) have become fascists and reunited with the other chapters who for the most part follow the same procedure, The NCR who is a corrupt and somewhat organized joke that are having trouble holding the line from people with machetes...., and really the only other major groups that I could think of would be the Midwestern chapter of the BOS though I don't know if they are considered lore. But is they are, they are almost the same as the other chapters. Hoarding tech and being fascist. Though the level of fascism changes throughout chapter.  

This is my longest post yet I think so if you don't want to read over 300 words, I understand. Also any grammatical errors were probably since I didn't re read this.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:15 pm

@MrEggs0925

Nah it's cool man, it's good to see I'm not the only one frustrated by the wasted potential. Interesting that you mention the Brotherhood becoming fascists. I haven't played Fallout 4 so I really can't say much on the subject, although I am a little bothered that they apparently did nothing to expand on Elder Lyons' altruistic motivations.

One thing I enjoy mentioning that really isn't brought up all that much, but always gets a laugh is:

Why did they build the water purifier on the mouth of the river?

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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:25 am

@Visible Earth I would get more into depth about the BOS and what happened to their key personal. Possibly also what happened to the Lone Wanderer and how all this has formed them into what they have become in FO4. But I don't want to spoil the story anymore then I have as some of the things are kind of surprising, At least they were for me.

yeah probably would of been smarter to put the Purifier up stream and not were it connects to the Atlantic Ocean. Not to mention the location is also hideous due to its proximity to the City and also with a Super Mutant camp near by. Also by putting the water up stream and creating a dam like structure you could purify the water and replace the irradiated water going down stream with purified water. Basically someone at Bethesda said we should put a water purifier up stream it makes sense and that got reworded to put it right at the Atlantic Ocean with a super mutant infested city right beside it.
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on the East Coast Enclave? *Spoilers*   Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:59 am

I wouldn't mind a fallout game where the BoS have gone on a genocidal campaign killing every mutant, ghoul and non-human in sight and a small enclave remnant or mojave brotherhood type dealio but enclave being a joinable faction to stop the brotherhood, just an idea.

East coast enclave though I mean I think they'd been the punching bag for a previous fallout title and Bethesda just kept the trend going.

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