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 VATS in Fallout

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Prosp3ro

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PostSubject: VATS in Fallout   Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:27 pm

Hi fellows, I just wondered if you do use VATS in your games. As I can see in videos and comments, many players adopted the bullet time feature from Project Nevada and it may be an interesting choice indeed. However, I think VATS has much potential, even if I agree to say that the vanilla system is rather broken. I like the RPG concept of the active pause which allows the player to calmly prepair his attacks without the FPS urgency. It is a tactical approach that I enjoy very much.

I have always considered VATS as a sort of cheat. Ennemies are less fast than the PC so they can’t really counterattack and the player is almost invulnerable in this mod. Melee characters can even teleport themselves to strike NPCs… But from another side, shooting in VATS from range is almost impossible, and auto-aim doesn’t fix things when you play a sniper character… FNV introduced some feeble improvements but didn’t change this main feeling of omnipotence. Concerning VATS in F4, I think it is a bad compromise between the old active pause and the modern FPS standards.

I found several mods on the Nexus which modify the concept to create something more consistent. Arwen and her “Arwen_NV_Realism_Tweaks” greatly overhaul VATS working (and the whole game) but this challenging mod is not easy to use in conjunction with weapon and armor mods and the DLCs are not included. So I have finally decided to not use it for now.

Some other mods have great assets, like “FNV Fast VATS” by Azarel123, which removes slow-motion in VATS mod and adds normal damage to the player (optional). “Perception and VATS Accuracy Overhaul Mod” by Jodwig fix the VATS range imprecision in a roleplay perspective: with a decent perception, you can hit NPCs from long range. More cinematic, “NV Slowmo Bullet Flyby in Vats” by Rafahil allows the camera to follow the bullet in slow motion when kill someone in VATS with a fatal headshot.

Do you use one of these mods? Do you know other ones? What do you think of VATS basically? I'm curious to know your opinions.
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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:33 pm

I never use it, imo its lame only thing close to it I use would be bullet time mods. But, I usually play a bunch of FPS games anyways so that'd pretty much sum up loving a shootout more than the stop and pick them off type of gameplay.

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:56 pm

I could never bring myself to use it. Imo it just feels useless to me, I prefer the fast pace of a shootout and obviously pausing the game to individually target one enemy and it's limbs, while a pretty cool feature in theory, ruins the pace of a firefight. I don't think I've ever used VATS much at all. I want my game to feel like it's a shootout or something.

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:58 pm

With fallout 3 and nv, I find it a must, I think the developers knew that, weapons on their own felt floaty, with poor animations, inaccurate and weak. VATS made battles both easier and more bearable but also made battles feel more cinematic, the close up on your enemies as you fill them with lead, the killing shot that begins with a close up of your firearm, then a stare at your barrel, then the camera follows your bullet through the air, until it reaches your opponent and something explodes. Fallout 3 and nv were built from the ground up as rpg's, VATS most definetly sells us that traditional rpg expirience

With fallout 4, combat is more fleshed out, it's more rewarding to not use vats with all the critical multipliers you can get, The weapons feel accurate and powerful with recoil that feels smooth and managable and the added hitmarks were a nice touch, I hardly ever needed to use vats in fallout 4 as the game felt more enjoyable without it. fallout 4 was built up as an rpg shooter, alot more work went into making sure combat held up.
and it had to really, to attract a larger fan-base, just like I'm sure fallout 3 and nv did with it's shooting/rpg hybrid mechanics
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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:58 am

It annoys me that in Fallout 4 they made it so that a critical meter fills up and that's how you critical hit, I preferred it like in FO3 and FNV where the chance was random from any bullet. I tend to use sniper weapons, so for FNV at least, it wasn't to hard to shoot people, but now on Fallout 4, people are such bullet sponges i feel I rely on VATS to be able get critical hits and make the fight bearable and not last 10 minutes of me just shooting a legendary super mutant warlord.

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:00 am

I use VATS just for finishing shots. What I do is that I use bullet time to cripple my enemies, then pull out Dinner Bell to blow their heads off one by one. And then for the last enemy, a quick shot to the head using Maria. But good god, I do not use VATS for sniping. I will never use VATS for sniping. It's a big waste of .308 and .50MG.
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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:26 pm

Well, VATS for me is a question of love and hate. I usually do not use it. VATS for me is usually 'dman i am missing all shots i'll die" or when something appears from nowhere or the enemy is too fast AND I AM CLOSE TO IT.

In FO3, i used to use VATS to search for enemies that i could not find, but trying to use it in a distance was not interesting, as the happiness from hitting with the hunting rifle from far was too great.

My opinions on VATS (i play with lots of mods, always, and the difficult of the game is far different from vanilla) in my game:

It is good for strategy (even in FO4), so you can get that helpfull slow time to think and choose where you want to shoot. Head, important parts of robots or insects, etc. Actually i prefer it being slow time than freeze, you should not think too much in the real action.
It works, but it depends in the distance from the enemy. If too far, not good. If too close, good for one enemy, NONO for more.
Using VATS can get you killed if you are surrounded, as already happened to me (ferals...), so sometimes it is better to find cover than spamming VATS.

Critical shots in FO4 are a total failure. NO. ONE. SHOULD. KNOW. WHEN. YOU. CRIT. . Really Beth?
For this i use a mod that gives a chance to crit based in your LUCK. Small, but immersive.
And it happens both inside and outside VATS.

In my game, again, humans are not a problem, ferals included, because shots to the head are deadly, and i never use VATS for it unless i am really desperate. For the others, all is situational, but me too, i consider this some kind of ''''''cheat''''' haha
makes the game a bit easy, but is good for the roleplay :p

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:55 pm

Most of you are right, VATS at long distance does not serve much and worse it wastes a lot of ammunition.
However, it is very useful for detecting enemies as well as mines and idle animations are really successful in FO4.

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:21 pm

Like I said before, shooting from range in VATS mod can be very effective if you have the appropriate mod. With a scoped rifle and a decent perception, you can play a sniper character and still use VATS. Actually, in a such perspective, it appears as a coherent solution because auto-aim diserves you at long range anyway.
But I think it's not the main problem. Most of you do not use VATS because it's not "immersive" in the middle of a shootout, and I quite agree with such an opinion.
Using VATS only to detect hostiles also appears as a kind of cheat, at least in hardcore mod...
Maybe VATS is not really needed seing as pipboy use already introduces an active pause.
VATS is a useful feature as long as auto-aim remains. Did they remove auto-aim in F4?
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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:27 pm

@LeoMen14 I like to snipe them manually, maybe i used it once in FO3 or NV but nah, much better to see your effort hehehe
And it is all a question of moment, i think. What i always wanted to do (and never did), was hitting grenades in the middle air. Oh wait, i think i already had it in VATS one time, but was too close to shoot at it :p

I really do not remember the auto-aim feature to talk about :/

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:49 pm

@"Di3sIrae" Yes, I get your point! Sniping with iron sights or scope is much more rewarding! But here comes the auto-aim problematic feature...

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:45 pm

The vats alternative I use is the superhot mod. Pretty much the same concept of the superhot game if any of you all have played that. Time only advances when you move allowing you to strategically plan kills and dodge your enemies bullets. Also a cheat in a way much like vats.

But speaking of vats. When I was younger I always used it on console as I was very garbage on a controller (and am only mediocre at best now TongueTril ) and would always just run away from combat if I ran out of AP closed eyes smile
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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:02 pm

I rarely use it in Fallout 3 and New Vegas but have found myself using it more and more in Fallout 4 as It's a much more pleasant system in my opinion.

My last play through in FO4 was primarily a critical/VATS build which lead to insane amounts of fun and was a great change of pace from my usual builds. I highly recommend it to anyone looking for something a bit different.

But now that I've gone back to FNV I've definitely missed the adrenaline rush of raw combat without having a safety button to fall back on, However I still do use the bullet time mechanic introduced with Project Nevada.

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:45 am

@LeoMen14 Geez, i really never noticed it. But in FO4 it is all better Very Happy
I do not remember if it is from any mod, probably, but the bullets here have some 'time' to reach the target, i am liking it a lot, i just need to think before shooting because a can miss walking/running enemies hehe

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:46 pm

i enjoy VATs for the simple reason ov seeing body parts explode in slow mo haha so i can take it or leave it but it never gets old closed eyes smile

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:56 pm

I usually use VATS for when I'm just charging up my critical hit meter so I can deal super damage upon the legendary enemies, deathclaws, etc. Other than that I don't really pay attention to it. With all the difficulty mods I have I'm probably hiding behind cover or whatever too so I can't use it.

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:16 pm

Personally, I typically don't use it b/c I feel as if it's a little bit OP. It allows you to shoot in directions that you aren't facing...which breaks my i-murrrrrrrrrrr-sion (Gopher Voice).

I do however make and exception for Cazadors b/c they are the seeds from the loins of Todd Howard's dark and horrid imagination.

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:02 pm

I used to use it in 3 and New Vegas because the shooting mechanics were much to be desired on the unmodded console versions. In Fallout 4 and modded 3 and New Vegas I use it very rarely, as the shooting mechanics are far better in my opinion. Besides why use Vats in Fallout 4 when you can take jet and prolong the adventure with a longer lasting chem effects mod. It's so much more fun shooting enemies in slow motion, while you are actually doing the shooting. Shootouts with War of the Commonwealth on is also very enticing without Vats.

Don't get me wrong I enjoy Vats but not as much as I love good old fashioned shootouts.

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:15 pm

Personally I never use VATS, I just use bullet time mods.

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PostSubject: Re: VATS in Fallout   Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:26 pm

Aidan_r_m wrote:
me too, i play NV with Project Nevada, reminds me a lot of max payne (of course, without the heels)

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